777 Partners / Whatever the hell you like

NeilA1878 · December 13, 2023

Moomin said:
Don't think many take him or the Daily fail seriously but it's not a great look that we are doing monthly loans from 777 at a reported high interest rate of 20%

As a business what we are doing is not sustainable.

Who is reporting that? The only thing I've seen is that they would turn their loans to equity upon successful completion.

With respect to their other clubs- the only information out there is they lent them money at 0% interest during takeover process.

jazzy · December 13, 2023

PhilM said:
He won’t do that unless it’s absolutely necessity. MSP only pulled out because the ridiculous price that Moshiri was asking.

Phil I thought MSP pulled out because one of the companies extending the loan ( RM?) refused to allow them to take over the liability and demanded repayment in full if there was a change of ownership

pfim · December 13, 2023

jazzy said:
Phil I thought MSP pulled out because one of the companies extending the loan ( RM?) refused to allow them to take over the liability and demanded repayment in full if there was a change of ownership

They did that because they thought the MSP deal undervalued the equity (Moshiri's asking price).

jazzy · December 13, 2023

pfim said:
They did that because they thought the MSP deal undervalued the equity (Moshiri's asking price).

Excuse my ignorance but why would the acquisition cost matter to a lender .

The original loan amount and interest agreed would still have to be repaid ( unless they were concerned about the new owners ability to repay?)

pfim · December 13, 2023

jazzy said:
Excuse my ignorance but why would the acquisition cost matter to a lender .

The original loan amount and interest agreed would still have to be repaid ( unless they were concerned about the new owners ability to repay?)

Moshiri was diluting his shares to sell to MSP effectively.

The more capital that MSP invests, the stronger the security the lender has against assets (and conversely the less they invest, the weaker the security).

Moomin · December 13, 2023

pfim said:
Moshiri was diluting his shares to sell to MSP effectively.

The more capital that MSP invests, the stronger the security the lender has against assets (and conversely the less they invest, the weaker the security).

I'm guessing that it would be in the T&C's of the loan if any change to ownership they could demand payment in full before they allow it.

jazzy · December 13, 2023

pfim said:
Moshiri was diluting his shares to sell to MSP effectively.

The more capital that MSP invests, the stronger the security the lender has against assets (and conversely the less they invest, the weaker the security).

Yeah I understand gearings tbut the person benefiting / suffering hardship ( dependant on the price ) was the seller not the lender. The value of the assets ie the stadium and players in unchanged regardless of ownership.

jazzy · December 13, 2023

Moomin said:
I'm guessing that it would be in the T&C's of the loan if any change to ownership they could demand payment in full before they allow it.

yes agreed. but they would only object on that basis if they thought MSP were less creditworthy than Moshiri

Moomin · December 13, 2023

jazzy said:
yes agreed. but they would only object on that basis if they thought MSP were less creditworthy than Moshiri

I think the issue they had was the deal under valued the club.

jazzy · December 13, 2023

Moomin said:
I think the issue they had was the deal under valued the club.

So what ? As long as the lender gets paid why would they care ?

Moomin · December 13, 2023

NeilA1878 said:
Who is reporting that? The only thing I've seen is that they would turn their loans to equity upon successful completion.

With respect to their other clubs- the only information out there is they lent them money at 0% interest during takeover process.

It was in the New York Times they are getting the loans from a company called A-CAP at 20% interest. Think Paul Joyce reported it in the Times as well.

jazzy · December 13, 2023

jazzy said:
Yeah I understand gearings tbut the person benefiting / suffering hardship ( dependant on the price ) was the seller not the lender. The value of the assets ie the stadium and players in unchanged regardless of ownership.

EDIT - unless Moshiri / Usmanov gave RM additional securities

Moomin · December 13, 2023

jazzy said:
So what ? As long as the lender gets paid why would they care ?

No idea, this rights media company seems a bit dodgy to say the least and we might be its only client.

pfim · December 13, 2023

jazzy said:
Yeah I understand gearings tbut the person benefiting / suffering hardship ( dependant on the price ) was the seller not the lender. The value of the assets ie the stadium and players in unchanged regardless of ownership.

Moshiri is not benefiting, this was an investment and a dilution of his shares. The assets change by how much cash MSP puts in. Liabilities increase more than the cash put in because the interest isn't paid, it's PIKd and added to the principal until it is converted into equity.

Essentially MSP was putting in 125 million in cash and getting 150 in equity (I don't remember the exact numbers).