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Confirmed Signing Amadou Onana

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I think West Ham are slowly building a half decent side. They have made some decent signings this window and have improved further. I expect them to be pushing hard for european places again.
I think like when Moyes was with us it'll always be 'nearly' for them, the squad depths not great either, left back is crap and a lot riding on this new cf of there's, very very little depth at cm too and Rice I'd be shocked if he still there next season.

Still maintain that they are a bad run of results from hdving an absolute toxic home atmosphere again as well, COVID bailed them out last time
 
Good post mate. I think we've been in such a mess that even just trying to break even would mean not investing in anyone and probable relegation.

The likes of Tarkowski, Gueye and Coady like you said won't generate us a profit in sales, but they would definitely offer a bit more short term stability and give us a better chance of staying in this division.

I think this is the thing mate, we tried it last summer and got mullared, i really think last season put the frighteners on the club. i wonder are we at the stage wher a fine for breaching profit and sustainability, is better then looseing 180 million in revenue and prob about 300 mill in value in going down. As the crow flies we're defo going to post another loss.
 
I think like when Moyes was with us it'll always be 'nearly' for them, the squad depths not great either, left back is crap and a lot riding on this new cf of there's, very very little depth at cm too and Rice I'd be shocked if he still there next season.

Still maintain that they are a bad run of results from hdving an absolute toxic home atmosphere again as well, COVID bailed them out last time
Cresswell? I think he's decent. Hasn't he been up there with the best in the league in terms of chances created and assists from lb?
 

3 weeks to go in the window, just a check in on how we are doing financially, wide diverse view, on projected losses this year - ive seen some project we are heading for a loss of 60 mill after the Richarlison sale - though id be closer to thinking we are at round zero after the sale i.e we are very close to breaking even for 21/22, the clubs activity in this window seem to indicate that.

Heading into 22/23, since the first of July we recouped £42 million in wages and amortisation, or rather players have left and we dont have to pay it - this creates space in our budget. We can factor in £27 million from the Moise Kean deal this fincial year as i beleive the obligation kicks in on the 30th of June 23.

So cashflow wise, we get £52 million, for Richarlison which probably covers our losses last year or close (in my opinion), 27 million for Kean we can count on this finacal year and £42 million in scope of the wage bill. Proabably important to say if we are running at a loss of 60 mill, that £42 million should come of the bottom line, so before player trading we are prob operating at a loss £18 mill or so.

So player trading, we've taken on costs, seems to me we are keen to stick to wage structure of about 4.5 mill, which is about 80k a week, the like sof Vinarge and McNeill may be on less so ill count them at 3.2 (60k) mill just for illustrative purposes. So the cost we have taken on are:

J.T. : Wages

4.5 million a year

Vinargre:

Wages 3.2


McNeill:

Wages: 3.2

Ammortisation: 4million

Projected:

Onana:

Wages: 4.5 mill

Ammortisation: 6.7 million.

Idrissa:

Wages: 4.5 million

Ammortisation: 4 million.

Coady:

4.5 million.


So if all of the above comes to pass we have saved £42. million in costs, but taken on £39.1 million. Before we look at taking on a striker or signing anything in addition to the above. So in terms of getting our losses down we've saved costs, but taken on more or less the same costs in new signings. Richarlisons fee will forgive much of last seasons loss and heading into this financial year, Kean £27 million might cushion the blow, but we are still probably operating as a business loosing £60 million a year, before we do anything else, when you factor in lower turnover - USM and Placement money. We could really we do with selling some players, but we know the problems there

Given the figures above the manager is certainly being backed in the market, ultimately if the above comes to pass we haven't really reduced our costs at all and likely we will need a sale similar to Richarlison next year to balance the books. In true Moshriri fashion hes pushing his out in the middle of the table is gambling again.

One notable trend i notice is a policy of looking and investing in the likes of JT, Coady and Idrissa - which is fine - good players practical solutions - but we are investing for 0 return. Kind of like Allan when he leaves on a free next year. We get no return bar service on owning him. Given player trading profits are a key area of raising capital for football clubs, three of our signings this summer we wont see a return on and investing £45 million in McNeill and Onana and backing ourselves to make a profit on them.

Its all Kool and the gang as the players come through the door in the summer, but ultimately we are kicking the an down the road again financially. maybe thats the plan, maybe that ok if we accept the strategy is getting to BMD on wing and prayer and we can broaden out our revenue base. But with three weeks in the window and a lot more likely to happen in between its probably good to take stop in the midst of the giddiness.

My take as the crow flies anyway.

Seen a report saying Gueye is gonna be 69k pw mate, also the fee for him is 'high estimate' at 8m could easily be a free or small token amount. Difference on a free with those wages would be 5m pa.

Vinagre also is on nowhere near 3.2m per year mate, that's 65k pw - sporting don't pay close to those wages besides for 1-2 absolutely top end players - I'm guessing he's much more likely on around 30-35k pw max. Again that's another 1.5m difference

Factor in we've signed a fair few commercial sponsor's lately, and the new sleeve sponsor rumour has it is a very big amount - so all those have to be added in too. Don't also discount a naming rights deal in the near future imo
 
Seen a report saying Gueye is gonna be 69k pw mate, also the fee for him is 'high estimate' at 8m could easily be a free or small token amount. Difference on a free with those wages would be 5m pa.

Vinagre also is on nowhere near 3.2m per year mate, that's 65k pw - sporting don't pay close to those wages besides for 1-2 absolutely top end players - I'm guessing he's much more likely on around 30-35k pw max. Again that's another 1.5m difference

Factor in we've signed a fair few commercial sponsor's lately, and the new sleeve sponsor rumour has it is a very big amount - so all those have to be added in too. Don't also discount a naming rights deal in the near future imo

Yep i projected some of figures mate, given some haven't arrived yet, so going on scant reporting, i was just curious myself to see our "state of current play" on costs and budgets.

If Vinarge is on 16 k a week. His wage would beabout 800k a year and whatever fee, which adjusts the 39 to about 37 mill (presumng there is no loan fee). I dont think it changes the spirit really or the underlying figure. I went witht he highest reported Ganna figure, two years for 8 mill and maybe conservatively put him at 80k (JT's wage). I suspect there are some adjustments, given projections, but id say that is the general state of play is give or take a couple of million on the baseline.
 
Yep i projected some of figures mate, given some haven't arrived yet, so going on scant reporting, i was just curious myself to see our "state of current play" on costs and budgets.

If Vinarge is on 16 k a week. His wage would beabout 800k a year and whatever fee, which adjusts the 39 to about 37 mill (presumng there is no loan fee). I dont think it changes the spirit really or the underlying figure. I went witht he highest reported Ganna figure, two years for 8 mill and maybe conservatively put him at 80k (JT's wage). I suspect there are some adjustments, given projections, but id say that is the general state of play is give or take a couple of million on the baseline.
Tbh mate I think we are just going to be treading water for the next few seasons until the stadium is built and Moshiri can sell up and get his money back. That's fine and it's to be expected at the end of the day. The signings we seem to be making are ok but they don't actually solve any of the issues we need to sort out in the team. There is still going to be a massive lack of creativity and a severe lack of goalscoring from across the team. This kid (Onana) is defo a step in the right direction though.
 

Tbh mate I think we are just going to be treading water for the next few seasons until the stadium is built and Moshiri can sell up and get his money back. That's fine and it's to be expected at the end of the day. The signings we seem to be making are ok but they don't actually solve any of the issues we need to sort out in the team. There is still going to be a massive lack of creativity and a severe lack of goalscoring from across the team. This kid (Onana) is defo a step in the right direction though.

I pretty much accepted that last season mate, its all about getting to BMD in the PL now., thats were im at, anything else is a bonus. I agree though we massively lack creativity, if our signings come to pass you would hope or expect us to be solid, but we really struggled for goals last season and i think unless we add something more we are going to struggle again this year.
 
Then im wrong, i projected and averaged some the wages to give an idea, though Vinagre could be lower and i suspect McNeill may be higher, but for illustrative purposes it wont be a kick in the backside away in terms of the overall cost bill!

15k pw is 2.5m difference on the 3.2m figure you estimated though mate, also as I said I think you're about 1m out on Gueyes wages and until details leak from reliable sources anywhere from 0-4m out on the yearly amortization costs on him too.

Probably receiving smallish loan fees for the various youth players out and wages covered say 1m total covered in fees and wages per player of 15k pw (low estimate) for 4 so far so that's 3m per year on wages saved.

Now throw in the variety of sponsorship deals and you're likely adding 5m more



Now factor in no sales only loans out for 1m fees and half wages for say Gomes, Gbanim, Allan that's another 3m received and approx 175k pw saved on wages - so another 9m off the books.

Total all that up and that's between 25-28m lower.

Any sale or additional loan sees that grow further. Obviously incomings reduce it
 
3 weeks to go in the window, just a check in on how we are doing financially, wide diverse view, on projected losses this year - ive seen some project we are heading for a loss of 60 mill after the Richarlison sale - though id be closer to thinking we are at round zero after the sale i.e we are very close to breaking even for 21/22, the clubs activity in this window seem to indicate that.

Heading into 22/23, since the first of July we recouped £42 million in wages and amortisation, or rather players have left and we dont have to pay it - this creates space in our budget. We can factor in £27 million from the Moise Kean deal this fincial year as i beleive the obligation kicks in on the 30th of June 23.

So cashflow wise, we get £52 million, for Richarlison which probably covers our losses last year or close (in my opinion), 27 million for Kean we can count on this finacal year and £42 million in scope of the wage bill. Proabably important to say if we are running at a loss of 60 mill, that £42 million should come of the bottom line, so before player trading we are prob operating at a loss £18 mill or so.

So player trading, we've taken on costs, seems to me we are keen to stick to wage structure of about 4.5 mill, which is about 80k a week, the like sof Vinarge and McNeill may be on less so ill count them at 3.2 (60k) mill just for illustrative purposes. So the cost we have taken on are:

J.T. : Wages

4.5 million a year

Vinargre:

Wages 3.2


McNeill:

Wages: 3.2

Ammortisation: 4million

Projected:

Onana:

Wages: 4.5 mill

Ammortisation: 6.7 million.

Idrissa:

Wages: 4.5 million

Ammortisation: 4 million.

Coady:

4.5 million.


So if all of the above comes to pass we have saved £42. million in costs, but taken on £39.1 million. Before we look at taking on a striker or signing anything in addition to the above. So in terms of getting our losses down we've saved costs, but taken on more or less the same costs in new signings. Richarlisons fee will forgive much of last seasons loss and heading into this financial year, Kean £27 million might cushion the blow, but we are still probably operating as a business loosing £60 million a year, before we do anything else, when you factor in lower turnover - USM and Placement money. We could really we do with selling some players, but we know the problems there

Given the figures above the manager is certainly being backed in the market, ultimately if the above comes to pass we haven't really reduced our costs at all and likely we will need a sale similar to Richarlison next year to balance the books. In true Moshriri fashion hes pushing his out in the middle of the table is gambling again.

One notable trend i notice is a policy of looking and investing in the likes of JT, Coady and Idrissa - which is fine - good players practical solutions - but we are investing for 0 return. Kind of like Allan when he leaves on a free next year. We get no return bar service on owning him. Given player trading profits are a key area of raising capital for football clubs, three of our signings this summer we wont see a return on and investing £45 million in McNeill and Onana and backing ourselves to make a profit on them.

Its all Kool and the gang as the players come through the door in the summer, but ultimately we are kicking the an down the road again financially. maybe thats the plan, maybe that ok if we accept the strategy is getting to BMD on wing and prayer and we can broaden out our revenue base. But with three weeks in the window and a lot more likely to happen in between its probably good to take stop in the midst of the giddiness.

My take as the crow flies anyway.

I have a feeling Moshiri is biding his time until the Ukraine War is over and the sanctions likely end on Uncle Uzzy.

With the global economic uncertainty you feel something has to give with that war within the next 12-18 months.

Worst case scenario we flog DCL next summer (which wouldn't be a bad thing given his recent injury record).
 
I think like when Moyes was with us it'll always be 'nearly' for them, the squad depths not great either, left back is crap and a lot riding on this new cf of there's, very very little depth at cm too and Rice I'd be shocked if he still there next season.

Still maintain that they are a bad run of results from hdving an absolute toxic home atmosphere again as well, COVID bailed them out last time

You say very little squad depth, but isn't that the same for every club outside the top six darlings. FFP originally brought in to stop clubs going bust, now tweaked and tailored by the big six, to stop the next Chelsea/ Man City, they have their wish of guaranteeing top six/ trophies and European football every year. It's not even a competition anymore, you may see the odd shock if the referee VAR allow it but you can almost say with cast iron certainty who the top six will be every year.

Leicester broke the cartel one year, Maherez and Kante, gone to City and Chelsea next year, now they have reached their spending allowance and are selling players and not buying an example of FFP. Liverpool have virtually replaced their from three with top of the range signings, after spending a few years earlier world record fee's on a centre half and a goalkeeper.

They are allowed to have this virtual unlimited spending, due to massive commercial deals, Champions league revenue and selling the odd player for extravagant fee's. Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs and Man United are never bothered about FFP, because they are the same. Even Eddie Howe in charge of the richest club in the World, Newcastle has said the other day, they aren't allowed to buy players the way he would like, they can not pay the wages of a City, United or a Liverpool because of FFP and that's it in a nutshell.
 
15k pw is 2.5m difference on the 3.2m figure you estimated though mate, also as I said I think you're about 1m out on Gueyes wages and until details leak from reliable sources anywhere from 0-4m out on the yearly amortization costs on him too.

Probably receiving smallish loan fees for the various youth players out and wages covered say 1m total covered in fees and wages per player of 15k pw (low estimate) for 4 so far so that's 3m per year on wages saved.

Now throw in the variety of sponsorship deals and you're likely adding 5m more



Now factor in no sales only loans out for 1m fees and half wages for say Gomes, Gbanim, Allan that's another 3m received and approx 175k pw saved on wages - so another 9m off the books.

Total all that up and that's between 25-28m lower.

Any sale or additional loan sees that grow further. Obviously incomings reduce it

Ha ha we're speculating very optimistically now mate, its impossible to be totally accurate given the newness of some of the deals and ones that haven't happened yet, lets give leeway of five million for error in terms of costs, could be Idrissa comes back on more then 80k, maybe Onana to - so we're speculating. I wasnt trying to be exact to be honest, just to get a general sense of play - i might do it all exact when the widow closes, but ball parking it, i dont think im wildly out up or down.

There are bits i left out like Benitez compo, we have to factor a drop in turnover on finishing position and USM 20 mill Vs the commercial peices you mention. Certainly sales would help on costs and any fees - not much seems to happeneing on that score compared to incoming though,so if that changes we can make that adjustment, but i think that might be hopeful.

Ultimately i wish i was wrong, i dont think we are making significant gaines in bringing our costs or losses down, hope im wrong, i just dont think i am and i dont think im not a kick in the back side away, we're in more or less the same position as we were before the window in terms of costs and losses would be my take ultimately.
 

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