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2019/20 Andre Gomes

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I'm 26.

I haven't heard of him genuinely.

He seems very wound up on twitter. Not sure how he's found the moral high ground after a spurs player broke our player's ankle in a needless tackle.

Fair enough .
im sorry Gomez ,and any other player who got injured , I’m old 54 and was watching Spurs when Danny Thomas was so badly injured v QPR he never played again .
re this incident , Son was wrongly wound up ,by having an arm flung in his face just moments before , By Gomez and nothing happened , he stupidly ran and took out Gomez possibly in a see of red mist . But he didn’t break his ankle , He tripped him , and Gomez stumbled and got his foot stuck in the turf , Unfortunately it happened as Aurier came in and met his planted foot ( I wouldnt have minded if he’d been sent off , he’s such a liability ) , but it was wrong to send off Son .
Let’s just hope he’s not out for too long
 

Interesting precedent the FA have layed down with this one, Martin Atkinson brandished the red card purely because of the injury - I'm sure there must have been a law floating around in his mind that he believed gave him justification for doing so. So the FA have now determined the a challenge that causes serious injury is no different in isolation to any other challenge of the same type.

My initial feeling at the time was that the challenge was no more than a yellow card. I get what people are saying with regards to the challenge coming from behind, but to be honest I believe that law was only brought in to outlaw 'scissor' challenges where players were bringing one leg around around the front and the other from the back which had a locking effect on an opposing players standing leg, making the risk of serious injury far worse. In real terms, that particular law is virtually never considered. How many times have you seen a striker, trying to shield the ball when a pass is played into him, get totally wiped out from behind by a centre back?

If you want to get yourself a straight red card, in my mind there are 3 pretty standard prerequisites:

1. Lead with the studs. I know people having been posting that freeze frame to try and claim Son did that - but he didn't. To lead with the studs, you have to actually catch the guy with your studs, or make an attempt to - which Son does not appear to do. Son catches the side of Gomes' leg with the side of his boot, causing him to lose balance.
2. Straight leg. The impact is far worse as much more force is generated if your leg goes in straight, which is deemed a 'lunge'. Referees will often deem that you're completely out of control if you fly in with a planted, straight leg. The leg Son leads with in his attempt to take Gomes out appears to always be bent at the knee.
3. Leaving the floor. Think that horrible little goblin, Dirk Kuyt, on Phil Neville - or perhaps not as he got away with that one bizarrely. If you leave the floor with both feet, under normal circumstances then you'll be going for an early bath. Again, Son does not 'jump' off the floor, he falls into the tackle off his standing leg.

There are other examples of cause, such as the speed you rush into challenges to or going in with both feet for example, but in general, 1 or a combination of the 3 examples above is what will get you your red card. I don't believe Son is guilty of any of the three. I think the only case you can make for the red card is that Son intended to hurt Gomes, and I just don't believe that's an argument you can make. He wanted to foul him, of course he did - and that's why he deserves his yellow, but any further than that I just can't personally make a case for it.

I take major issue with that tweet from Spurs though. There is a time and a place, and in a Champions League squad you have 24 others you can take a few poser pictures of, but in your tweet of just 4 images you include the guy who's most under the microscope front and centre in all four!? I know they will turn round and say "it's the Champions League, he was eligible to play anyway" but surely some common sense and some sensitivity could have been shown here? I actually thought the red card was a good thing for Son, it gave him the opportunity to clear his head, if he is truly remorseful that is, and he could have gotten away from the spotlight for a few games so the fact they even appealed it in the first place surprises me.

I guess we'll see how much this has affected him looking at his upcoming performances...
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I like @Keiran

He plays devil's advocate supremely well and revels in being an arch contrarian.
Nah, he actually talks a fair bit of sense when he’s on about the football, but the WUM stuff is rubbish. There are some posters on here who get my head in a spin with their wriggling, they change their argument completely without you even really noticing. He’s an amateur at it, he just puts his fingers in his ears and says la la la until you give up.
 

Whether it should be or not is not the matter at hand: is that the wording/interpretation of the rules and laws of the game? We should try and be objective.

Genuinely, I am not wanting to appear obtuse (or be it) and I do understand your point, however my issue is that people are directly jumping to the consequence.

You talked about drink driving, so if you would let me put it into another context for you regarding law, where in each case a man dies, my point may be clearer:
  1. A defendant takes a knife and in a pre-mediated attack stabs someone causing death.
  2. A defendant takes a knife and in an unplanned attack stabs someone causing death.
  3. A defendant in a pre-mediated attack repeatedly punches a defenceless victim, including when on the ground, causing death.
  4. A defendant in an unplanned attack (confrontation etc.) punches the victim once causing the victim to collapse, bang their head and die.
The first three would be pushed for murder because the wording under common law is an intention "to cause either death or serious injury unlawfully.'

Big custodial for the first two, but the second while having no intent carries the likelihood that you will cause serious injury by acting in a manner.

That would either be murder or manslaughter - the push would be for the former and rightly. By using a knife, you must expect to cause serious injury or death.

The fourth, while causing death, would in many cases be involuntary manslaughter due to reduced mens rea - a reduced intention to do wrong and cause harm.

Basically, would all four actions justify the same punishment? All would likely to endanger the person and have ultimately caused the same result.

However, quite rightly the consequence is not the deciding factor and rather intent and many other mitigating factors are brought into a complex process.

I think where it boils down to is our perspective of the first challenge; personally while I have said it was rash, I simply do not think it meets the threshold for a red.

Did he in making the tackle, with reasonable forethought, have the intent to cause serious injury or did the tackle itself show a likelihood of causing serious injury?

For me, it's again a no because so many similar tackles happen in football all the time, where injury does not occur and if so no where near to that extent.

Why I mentioned the Mina scenario is simple: the offence and the consequence are not intrinsically linked, which has been my point throughout.

If I genuinely believe Son had committed a terrible tackle knowing it could injure and he did so, then rightfully I would demand that he'd get a lengthy, lengthy ban.

If I genuinely believe Son had committed a terrible tackle knowing it could injure but hadn't injured him, then rightfully I would demand that he'd get a ban.

But because the first aspect is in my humble opinion not of that sort, then I don't feel that he is deserving of a ban. That's me trying to be objective.
The laws of the game state that endangering someone's safety is a red card offense. Someone who breaks their leg as the result of an illegal challenge has had their safety endangered. To me there is nothing else to it from a laws standpoint.

There also isn't anything to it from a common sense standpoint. I just really can't stand the way this game has been tilted toward the rich clubs.
 
The laws of the game state that endangering someone's safety is a red card offense. Someone who breaks their leg as the result of an illegal challenge has had their safety endangered. To me there is nothing else to it from a laws standpoint.

There also isn't anything to it from a common sense standpoint. I just really can't stand the way this game has been tilted toward the rich clubs.

if its so balck and white , then why have the FA turned the red card over .. ??
 

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