2019/20 Anthony Gordon

[davids]

Could our away record not improve with no opposition fans?

I'd hope so,but as I said relieved we have points on the board.

 

[Furey1878]

I'm slightly confused that some people seem to think that the likes of Kenny and Davies still can't be judged despite having over 100 senior appearances under their belts, but 9 games will tell us all we need to know about Gordon.

Tbf lad, I think it only took a few games to tell that Davies had something to offer at PL level, the greater question of is he good enough for us is an on going one that will have to be answered this year or next.

Don't think most level headed fans are expecting us to have a fully formed opinion of Gordon off the back of these 9 games but it will give us an idea if he can at least make an impact at this level provided he get a fair few minutes.

 

[Lanolin]

Tbf lad, I think it only took a few games to tell that Davies had something to offer at PL level, the greater question of is he good enough for us is an on going one that will have to be answered this year or next.

Don't think most level headed fans are expecting us to have a fully formed opinion of Gordon off the back of these 9 games but it will give us an idea if he can at least make an impact at this level provided he get a fair few minutes.

Yeah I get that, my point is more that people say these things as if they're talking about the club when really they just want to sate their own curiosity. The club should know whether Gordon is good enough to play a part without just chucking him in as a trial. People say 'we'll never know unless we put him in' but they just mean they're desperately hoping he's good enough (usually without ever having seen the player in question) and want to see him play to find out how good he is. If he plays well between now and the end of the season they'll demand he starts every game next season, if he doesn't they'll either say he's absolutely useless and should be released, or continue calling for him to play for the next three years and saying he's still young enough to get there when he's 22. This isn't my first rodeo.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Yeah I get that, my point is more that people say these things as if they're talking about the club when really they just want to sate their own curiosity. The club should know whether Gordon is good enough to play a part without just chucking him in as a trial. People say 'we'll never know unless we put him in' but they just mean they're desperately hoping he's good enough (usually without ever having seen the player in question) and want to see him play to find out how good he is. If he plays well between now and the end of the season they'll demand he starts every game next season, if he doesn't they'll either say he's absolutely useless and should be released, or continue calling for him to play for the next three years and saying he's still young enough to get there when he's 22. This isn't my first rodeo.

I genuinely believe that writing off a young player who you've decided is good enough to be in the squad without actually letting them play games is crazy. If he plays a few games this year and is over his head then I'll be saying send him on loan, I thought it was good we did with Holgate for example, but it also could be enough time to add an actual contributor to the squad. Given we are playing for next to nothing, why not? Does playing Bernard and Walcott (I know he is hurt, just an example) every game benefit us more? I'd also argue we should maybe give Kean a couple of starts even if that means breaking up Richarlison and DCL. We're preparing for the future now.

 

[Lanolin]

I genuinely believe that writing off a young player who you've decided is good enough to be in the squad without actually letting them play games is crazy. If he plays a few games this year and is over his head then I'll be saying send him on loan, I thought it was good we did with Holgate for example, but it also could be enough time to add an actual contributor to the squad. Given we are playing for next to nothing, why not? Does playing Bernard and Walcott (I know he is hurt, just an example) every game benefit us more? I'd also argue we should maybe give Kean a couple of starts even if that means breaking up Richarlison and DCL. We're preparing for the future now.

But again, who is doing the writing off? If the manager feels he's good enough to be around the squad and occasionally come on but not really ready to start, how is that writing him off? You're effectively just agreeing with what I said. You want to see him play so that you can decide whether you think he should stay or go on loan. That's absolutely fine, of course, i'm just pointing out that it doesn't actually make any difference to his progress, it just lets fans make their mind up.

 

[TheBigIguana]

But again, who is doing the writing off? If the manager feels he's good enough to be around the squad and occasionally come on but not really ready to start, how is that writing him off? You're effectively just agreeing with what I said. You want to see him play so that you can decide whether you think he should stay or go on loan. That's absolutely fine, of course, i'm just pointing out that it doesn't actually make any difference to his progress, it just lets fans make their mind up.

I really think it is more beneficial to the club long term if the players who haven't played much this year get chances. I said it last year as well when we had nothing to play for at the end of the year.

If Gordon doesn't play and then is sent on loan next year, he has been written off in the immediate term whether that means he is deemed permanently not good enough or not. And that again would be without playing games. This is what I'd prefer we didn't do anymore with young players, even if they don't "deserve" the time or whatever.

 

[blueblue]

Anybody who has been involved in sport will know that only the supremely gifted can establish themselves aged 18, 19 or even 20 , and that is in amateur sport, it will be more competitive again in professional sport.
When you compare an eighteen year old against somebody ten years older you get to see the challenge it presents.

The management team will see the young players in action every day. I would guess that they will know very well already the young players who have enough talent to succeed. I expect that the work with these young players at Finch Farm is now if the can determine who has the other attributes to become a Premiership player.
If they have the tactical awareness to carry out the role assigned to them, if the have the flexibility to adapt to different roles, if they have the determination to overcome disappointments.
I think very few supporters actually understand what is involved in the education of a young footballer. I would guess they would be shocked at how much theory and learning is involved,.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Anybody who has been involved in sport will know that only the supremely gifted can establish themselves aged 18, 19 or even 20 , and that is in amateur sport, it will be more competitive again in professional sport.
When you compare an eighteen year old against somebody ten years older you get to see the challenge it presents.

The management team will see the young players in action every day. I would guess that they will know very well already the young players who have enough talent to succeed. I expect that the work with these young players at Finch Farm is now if the can determine who has the other attributes to become a Premiership player.
If they have the tactical awareness to carry out the role assigned to them, if the have the flexibility to adapt to different roles, if they have the determination to overcome disappointments.
I think very few supporters actually understand what is involved in the education of a young footballer. I would guess they would be shocked at how much theory and learning is involved,.

I understand this. It is an extremely complex game. I wouldn't for example expect us to throw someone in this weekend against a very tactically difficult team in the RS. But learning also imo requires doing. Only so much practice can help.

I just have a tough time trusting the management to get these things right because Everton's management has so few times. I know Ancelotti is different but I'm still shaken by it.

 

[blueblue]

I understand this. It is an extremely complex game. I wouldn't for example expect us to throw someone in this weekend against a very tactically difficult team in the RS. But learning also imo requires doing. Only so much practice can help.

I just have a tough time trusting the management to get these things right because Everton's management has so few times. I know Ancelotti is different but I'm still shaken by it.

I think if you go through Premiership teams our record is as good as any.
I think that depending on the club a young player is at different opportunities arise.
At a club whose ambition is to pay bills and remain in the top tier then young players will probably be given more of an opportunity to play but then they face some very harsh lessons when playing against the better teams and sometimes a bad beating can share the confidence of a young player. These clubs seem to be looked on as feeder clubs by the bigger wealthier clubs who cherry pick the best of young talent once they become established.

At top four clubs young players find it harder to get a chance and it is rare that you see more than one young player get a start in any game. The flip side of that is that it is easier to come into a side that has better players and is winning every week.

I would use Alexander Arnold as an example, I wonder how well he would do if playing for Villa, Watford or Brighton.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I think if you go through Premiership teams our record is as good as any.
I think that depending on the club a young player is at different opportunities arise.
At a club whose ambition is to pay bills and remain in the top tier then young players will probably be given more of an opportunity to play but then they face some very harsh lessons when playing against the better teams and sometimes a bad beating can share the confidence of a young player. These clubs seem to be looked on as feeder clubs by the bigger wealthier clubs who cherry pick the best of young talent once they become established.

At top four clubs young players find it harder to get a chance and it is rare that you see more than one young player get a start in any game. The flip side of that is that it is easier to come into a side that has better players and is winning every week.

I would use Alexander Arnold as an example, I wonder how well he would do if playing for Villa, Watford or Brighton.

Top four clubs can afford and attract top players at every position. It is why Chelsea could throw away world class youth talents and still win titles. We can't. Our path to competing has to be different.

Yes Alexander Arnold wouldn't be as good in a team that wasn't as perfectly suited to his abilities, but that's part of management so if Ancelotti is going to be what he is supposed to be he should be able to integrate someone like Gordon if he has the ability. I'm not worried about that part.

 

[Tubey]

He can't be as bad as Sigurdsson. Give him the run in and see how he goes.

If unconvinced, loan and see again in 12 months how he's progressed.

 

[blueblue]

Top four clubs can afford and attract top players at every position. It is why Chelsea could throw away world class youth talents and still win titles. We can't. Our path to competing has to be different.

Yes Alexander Arnold wouldn't be as good in a team that wasn't as perfectly suited to his abilities, but that's part of management so if Ancelotti is going to be what he is supposed to be he should be able to integrate someone like Gordon if he has the ability. I'm not worried about that part.

All clubs are trying to get away from really expensive purchases and are concentrating hugely now on their academies. It just is more difficult to get a young player through at City than it is at Brighton because the demands are so high.

I think that after this period of lockdown all players came back more or less even, as they do in pre season.

I think it will have given everybody equally the chance to catch the eye of the manager... hopefully this will benefit the young lads.
However, Italian managers like to defend well and I don't think they care as much about the date on the birth cert when considering a player

 

[Pabbers]

I remember when everyone was moaning about Ross, and how Davies had over-taken him....now Davies is hated by most...Dom got absolute dogs abuse and now is a super star......you just know its going to happen to Gordon, its what “we” do.

 

[TheBigIguana]

All clubs are trying to get away from really expensive purchases and are concentrating hugely now on their academies. It just is more difficult to get a young player through at City than it is at Brighton because the demands are so high.

I think that after this period of lockdown all players came back more or less even, as they do in pre season.

I think it will have given everybody equally the chance to catch the eye of the manager... hopefully this will benefit the young lads.
However, Italian managers like to defend well and I don't think they care as much about the date on the birth cert when considering a player

Why do we act like being good defensively is either a good reason to pick a winger or something that older players do better than young ones? Walcott and Bolasie have both been picked for "tracking back" and then cost us goals the last few years.

 

[Zezti]

I remember when everyone was moaning about Ross, and how Davies had over-taken him....now Davies is hated by most...Dom got absolute dogs abuse and now is a super star......you just know its going to happen to Gordon, its what “we” do.

Really!? I definitely do not remember that.