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2022/23 Anthony Gordon

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Well it looks like the club have heroically managed to stave off Chelsea's £60 million advances on their star player and it's looking almost certain he'll be remaining an Everton player this season. Well done.;)
Well, they actually havnt stave anything yet, Chelsea only bid £25, the rest on drip and addons. If they want him they will ACTUALLY have to bid £60 and I doubt that will be refused.
 
Yeah I do understand the principles if FFP if not the minute detail.

My point was that I don't think they would be breaking those rules and wouldn't risk doing so, but that is not based on anything concrete. Are you that familiar with Chelsea's finances that you know they will break the rules if they splash an extra 50m on Gordon? If so, fair do's.
At 50 million pounds, Gordon adds an extra ten million per year to the amortization bill (on a five year contract) plus whatever the wages are. Let me explain why they don't want to do that.

UEFA's new rule is simpler and far more transparent than how the Prem does things. I could probably get under the hood of the last three years of financials and give you a decent estimate of their position (I've done that with ours) with respect to the Prem, but I'm going to stick with the simpler problem. This means ignoring a lot of detail, which I'm going to summarize as 'fairly irrelevant'. Also, I was able to confirm that there are no loopholes on the amortization problem due to the rules transition.

Starting next season, Chelsea's total outlay on wages and their transfer dealings needs to be under 90% of their revenue, as will that of all participants in UEFA competitions. They're already upside down a couple hundred million in the transfer market coming into this season, between 20-21 and the Lukaku-shaped albatross around their necks. They've added about 250 million more in outlay so far. Let's call all the contracts in question five years long to keep the math easy. That leaves them 90 million or so that they're amortizing each year as of now.

Last season revenue was 437 million pounds and wages were 334 million pounds. This is fine until you add in the 90 million in player amortization. Now they're at 424 million pounds. The situation is likely worse than that, because they added six players while shifting Werner's wages and part of Lukaku's, but let's ignore that to keep the math easy. This leaves a shortfall of 25 million pounds. This is probably fine, since the 2021-22 financials will add back ticket sales that weren't in the previous year's revenue.

The problem is that in the next season the threshold goes to 80% of revenue, and in the season after to 70%. This means that, as things stand, they have to do some combination of shift an extra 43.7 million pounds of wages or book that kind of profit in the transfer market two years out, and twice that three years out. If they sell academy players, all of the sale price counts as profit. If the player has been around a while, most of it does. If they flip a player for considerably less than what they paid a year later, it actually counts as a loss and makes matters worse. They can offset some of that with revenue growth, but they've been fairly flat for a while now.

This situation is uncomfortable, but manageable. It's probably going to cost them a prospect or two like Gallagher and Broja to solve. Now, if you tack on another quarter million in player purchases this math completely blows up. That's another fifty million in amortization costs, plus whatever wages they pay out. Let's generously call the extra wages on 250 million pounds worth of players forty million a year, for another ninety million in costs. They're going to have to sell players just to comply next season, and they're going to have to have a giant fire sale in each of the next two seasons in order to get under the cap, because they have to offset every dime of the increased costs.

TL;DR : if they buy Gordon right now, they're committing to selling an in-demand player in a couple of years to pay for it. Are you doing that? I'm not. Fofana taps them out, for all practical purposes. They want to give Auba a one-year contract because they don't want to have to offset the wages and half of the transfer fee somehow next season under UEFA's new rules. If you were wondering why they're being difficult about this, now you know.

Have you not realised yet? Every man and his dog on football fan forums are experts on other clubs finances.
If I can understand things like the byzantine NBA and NFL salary cap rules, I can understand this. It's child's play by comparison, because the rules are simple and the relevant club financial data is literally published on every football club's website. The data on transfermarkt on fees is at least decent, and takes a couple of clicks to access. If I want to know where a club stands, it's literally a thirty minute project. The rest of the time spent was on writing it up clearly.
 
At 50 million pounds, Gordon adds an extra ten million per year to the amortization bill (on a five year contract) plus whatever the wages are. Let me explain why they don't want to do that.

UEFA's new rule is simpler and far more transparent than how the Prem does things. I could probably get under the hood of the last three years of financials and give you a decent estimate of their position (I've done that with ours) with respect to the Prem, but I'm going to stick with the simpler problem. This means ignoring a lot of detail, which I'm going to summarize as 'fairly irrelevant'. Also, I was able to confirm that there are no loopholes on the amortization problem due to the rules transition.

Starting next season, Chelsea's total outlay on wages and their transfer dealings needs to be under 90% of their revenue, as will that of all participants in UEFA competitions. They're already upside down a couple hundred million in the transfer market coming into this season, between 20-21 and the Lukaku-shaped albatross around their necks. They've added about 250 million more in outlay so far. Let's call all the contracts in question five years long to keep the math easy. That leaves them 90 million or so that they're amortizing each year as of now.

Last season revenue was 437 million pounds and wages were 334 million pounds. This is fine until you add in the 90 million in player amortization. Now they're at 424 million pounds. The situation is likely worse than that, because they added six players while shifting Werner's wages and part of Lukaku's, but let's ignore that to keep the math easy. This leaves a shortfall of 25 million pounds. This is probably fine, since the 2021-22 financials will add back ticket sales that weren't in the previous year's revenue.

The problem is that in the next season the threshold goes to 80% of revenue, and in the season after to 70%. This means that, as things stand, they have to do some combination of shift an extra 43.7 million pounds of wages or book that kind of profit in the transfer market two years out, and twice that three years out. If they sell academy players, all of the sale price counts as profit. If the player has been around a while, most of it does. If they flip a player for considerably less than what they paid a year later, it actually counts as a loss and makes matters worse. They can offset some of that with revenue growth, but they've been fairly flat for a while now.

This situation is uncomfortable, but manageable. It's probably going to cost them a prospect or two like Gallagher and Broja to solve. Now, if you tack on another quarter million in player purchases this math completely blows up. That's another fifty million in amortization costs, plus whatever wages they pay out. Let's generously call the extra wages on 250 million pounds worth of players forty million a year, for another ninety million in costs. They're going to have to sell players just to comply next season, and they're going to have to have a giant fire sale in each of the next two seasons in order to get under the cap, because they have to offset every dime of the increased costs.

TL;DR : if they buy Gordon right now, they're committing to selling an in-demand player in a couple of years to pay for it. Are you doing that? I'm not. Fofana taps them out, for all practical purposes. They want to give Auba a one-year contract because they don't want to have to offset the wages and half of the transfer fee somehow next season under UEFA's new rules. If you were wondering why they're being difficult about this, now you know.


If I can understand things like the byzantine NBA and NFL salary cap rules, I can understand this. It's child's play by comparison, because the rules are simple and the relevant club financial data is literally published on every football club's website. The data on transfermarkt on fees is at least decent, and takes a couple of clicks to access. If I want to know where a club stands, it's literally a thirty minute project. The rest of the time spent was on writing it up clearly.
OK. I didn't take in the detail of that as I have a hangover and it would make my head hurt even more. I apologise as I can see that you put a lot of effort into that post. But from what I can see you are basing your figures on bringing players in but not offloading any, which they will most certainly have to do because at the end of the day they can only have a squad of 25 plus under age players. So far this window they have a net spend of around a £100m, but even if they don't bring anybody else in, I can see them offloading at least another 4/5 players before the window closes, either on loan or sales.

A lot of your workings revolves around wages too, but again you seem to not be factoring in the wages that have gone out of the door this summer. Lukaku, Werner and Rudiger will all have been on massive wages, and some of the other players that leave this window will be on big wages too.

I get that you understand sport finances a lot better than I do. But I reiterate that you do not know the inner details of Chelsea's finances as well as their own people do. They have been chasing Fofana and Gordon pretty much all window and they wouldn't be doing that if they didn't have the financial clout to do so. It is definitely not an either or situation.
 
Recruiters use fans forums to value players?
Not sure about that. How can Barry from Huyton, worried about the rising gas prices realistically differentiate between £45-60 million bids whilst, weighing up the future potential changes to the football business market place, and the potential profit to be made on such bids v affordable risk v tactical requirement of the Chelsea side.
There maybe a person in the room that would take a peek at the forum as part of due diligence that’s about the level it
Mate professionals who are paid mega money to make these decisions, dont look at internet forums, and they dont listen to Simon Jordan.

It has no difference what people on here think. When you sell to someone, or buy from someone, your key focus, and only focus is what the decision maker thinks.

I suspect what is happening, is they are negotiating currently. There are always a lot of steps before an offer goes in. If you are Chelsea, you want to know that the player will move and that Everton will sell. Everton are probably talking about terms of agreements.

We theoretically paid 40m for Alli, but turns out we wont pay a penny for him. It's where headline figures are dubious. Selling him on a deal like that woild be stupidity. So we are probably asking for cash up front.

I think fans are a great source of information about their own players. It's probably the one thing we agree on. We know the players. You say due diligence, and I mostly agree with that, though if talking heads like Simon Jordan say he's not worth it, and fans on forums say its a great business deal for Everton, I think that can influence the valuation, especially for a scouting team that has to keep track of hundreds if not thousands of players. Anyway I'm just saying they probably listen to the feedback from talkshows and the like.
 

I think fans are a great source of information about their own players. It's probably the one thing we agree on. We know the players. You say due diligence, and I mostly agree with that, though if talking heads like Simon Jordan say he's not worth it, and fans on forums say its a great business deal for Everton, I think that can influence the valuation, especially for a scouting team that has to keep track of hundreds if not thousands of players. Anyway I'm just saying they probably listen to the feedback from talkshows and the like.

@arbok i reckon Simon Jordan prob goes on team forums and judges the crowd before expressing an opinion.
I just think that Chelsea have analysts assessing his character, measuring sprints, runs with the ball, chances created, what role can he play in the line up, what does he offer coming off the bench if chasing a game, or needing to see a result out… etc etc… which to 90% of fans on forums is too much for them to comprehend… basically “doesn’t score goals does he”.
Chelsea analysts and scouting network probably think Simon Jordan is suit, failed club owner, now self publicist - out of touch with footballing ability.
He might create a lot of noise and twitter momentum but that is blocked out by clubs at the top level.
 


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