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2019/20 Bernard

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TheBigIguana said:
It's very strange how every one is attaching him and Gomes. I get that they came on at the same time, but Gomes dominated the game and completely revitalized our midfield with his forward passing while Bernard didn't do that. He was fine but not any great departure from Iwobi. The right side was still a problem defensively but Arsenal shut up shop instead of pressing it.

Bernard does not get credit for Gomes being really good.
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Which of these two players can:

Run + Pass + Tackle + Find Space


Bernard OR Iwobi...


When its broken down into simplistic standards at the moment Iwobi is miles off.
 
Zatara said:
Which of these two players can:

Run + Pass + Tackle + Find Space


Bernard OR Iwobi...


When its broken down into simplistic standards at the moment Iwobi is miles off.
Click to expand...
Run- Bernard
Pass- I'd say Iwobi. People will kill me for that, but honestly I think Iwobi is really good at passing the ball. Plus in terms of strictly forward passing Iwobi is better.
Tackle- Bernard but also who really cares? They're attackers.
Find Space- For me it is somewhat even but Bernard is more effective when he pulls wide. They both do a decent job between the lines. It's why I find it strange that they didn't play together today.
Dribbling is Bernard.
Shooting is probably Bernard, but Iwobi is better at getting off shots which is a skill that matters too.
Decision making they are both straight up woeful at times.

The conclusion for me is that they are fairly equal and pretty average players. Bernard has been slightly better this year on the whole, but Iwobi has been nowhere near as bad as people make out, nor Bernard as good.
 
TheBigIguana said:
Run- Bernard
Pass- I'd say Iwobi. People will kill me for that, but honestly I think Iwobi is really good at passing the ball. Plus in terms of strictly forward passing Iwobi is better.
Tackle- Bernard but also who really cares? They're attackers.
Find Space- For me it is somewhat even but Bernard is more effective when he pulls wide. They both do a decent job between the lines. It's why I find it strange that they didn't play together today.
Dribbling is Bernard.
Shooting is probably Bernard, but Iwobi is better at getting off shots which is a skill that matters too.
Decision making they are both straight up woeful at times.

The conclusion for me is that they are fairly equal and pretty average players. Bernard has been slightly better this year on the whole, but Iwobi has been nowhere near as bad as people make out, nor Bernard as good.
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If youre playing in a wide midfield role you have a responsibility to help your full back...

Bernard + Digne weve seen combine both ways effectively.

Iwobi, early days but Sidibe was hung out to dry today.

Passing wise, Iwobi makes some 'by the numbers' passes...meaning he does hit balls into dangerous positions but either players arent on the same wavelength or hes not as good as he seems...

So many times he makes a 'killer pass' but no one is there...its hugely frustrating and just gives the opposition the ball.

For me, when choosing a left mid id go with Bernard with Gordon rotating in...as a 10 id sign someone and have Iwobi rotating in.

I know swap deals are rare but i think we may need to hope we can swap Iwobi + cash for someone or we're going to take a big hit on FFP.
 
If Carlo can nail Iwobi down to a position that would be a start. He's got ability but i watched him countless times for Arsenal where either i was unsure where he was playing and where he plays best.

I think he does better centrally than on the wing but as you saw today he doesn't take defensive responsibilities on board and doesn't appear to have the discipline m
 
Zatara said:
If youre playing in a wide midfield role you have a responsibility to help your full back...

Bernard + Digne weve seen combine both ways effectively.

Iwobi, early days but Sidibe was hung out to dry today.

Passing wise, Iwobi makes some 'by the numbers' passes...meaning he does hit balls into dangerous positions but either players arent on the same wavelength or hes not as good as he seems...

So many times he makes a 'killer pass' but no one is there...its hugely frustrating and just gives the opposition the ball.

For me, when choosing a left mid id go with Bernard with Gordon rotating in...as a 10 id sign someone and have Iwobi rotating in.

I know swap deals are rare but i think we may need to hope we can swap Iwobi + cash for someone or we're going to take a big hit on FFP.
Click to expand...
I go the other way. Sidibe's incompetence hung Iwobi out to dry and forced Iwobi to do way more than a winger should tracking back. It didn't get better when Bernard came on, Arsenal just slowed down the attacking and saw the game out. Sidibe was really really bad defensively and that is his fault, not Iwobi or Bernard's.

The killer pass thing: Bernard does that too. Iwobi really doesn't give the ball away that much. He hasn't quite found the wavelength to get the ball into dangerous positions consistently yet, but I still think the potential is there. I just wouldn't give up on him yet.

As this is the Bernard thread I'll bring it back real quick and say I'd probably get him in the team next week. Of course Wan-Bissaka is just a complete mismatch out there so hopefully he can use his brain and beat him that way. I'd leave Iwobi in unless Walcott is fit. I think Bernard and him could combine well it they both drift inside some. Bernard, Iwobi and Gomes is the beginning of a semi-intelligent midfield imo.
 

Looking at the bbc stats, which might not be that reliable. But it says Bernard has 3 goals, from 7 shots. That tells me that if we can get him to try more shots, he could get more goals. I like Iwobi, but don’t think he will ever be as clinical as Bernard. Maybe it is a confidence thing with Bernard. He averages 1 shot every game and a bit that he plays, I would certainly encourage him to try his luck a bit more. He looks class at times, maybe he could go up another level with his goals record?
 
Cmonefcsortitout! said:
Looking at the bbc stats, which might not be that reliable. But it says Bernard has 3 goals, from 7 shots. That tells me that if we can get him to try more shots, he could get more goals. I like Iwobi, but don’t think he will ever be as clinical as Bernard. Maybe it is a confidence thing with Bernard. He averages 1 shot every game and a bit that he plays, I would certainly encourage him to try his luck a bit more. He looks class at times, maybe he could go up another level with his goals record?
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I love Bernard, but if you can never be as clinical as him, you should really give up on any thoughts of being a top level attacking player. He's about the least clinical 'good' player i've ever seen.
 
Cmonefcsortitout! said:
Looking at the bbc stats, which might not be that reliable. But it says Bernard has 3 goals, from 7 shots. That tells me that if we can get him to try more shots, he could get more goals. I like Iwobi, but don’t think he will ever be as clinical as Bernard. Maybe it is a confidence thing with Bernard. He averages 1 shot every game and a bit that he plays, I would certainly encourage him to try his luck a bit more. He looks class at times, maybe he could go up another level with his goals record?
Click to expand...
It's 3 goals from 11 shots I think. That's what I'm seeing elsewhere at least.

Anyway that's still really good. But there's a couple of problems with your theory I think. One is getting shots off is a skill and thus far Bernard has not shown it to be a skill he has. So shooting more isn't so simple as just telling him to do it. The second problem is how the goals have gone in doesn't necessarily suggest he's a super good shooter. The Palace goal was brilliant fair enough, but the others are a deflection and a shot from no angle that was misplayed by West Hams keeper who got benched for a league 1 player. If he had three goals where he picked out the corner each time we might have a different conversation.

I think we should be very happy with Bernard's goal return tbh. It is pretty clearly not what his game is about so the way he's chipped in has been a real bonus thus far.
 

TheBigIguana said:
It's 3 goals from 11 shots I think. That's what I'm seeing elsewhere at least.

Anyway that's still really good. But there's a couple of problems with your theory I think. One is getting shots off is a skill and thus far Bernard has not shown it to be a skill he has. So shooting more isn't so simple as just telling him to do it. The second problem is how the goals have gone in doesn't necessarily suggest he's a super good shooter. The Palace goal was brilliant fair enough, but the others are a deflection and a shot from no angle that was misplayed by West Hams keeper who got benched for a league 1 player. If he had three goals where he picked out the corner each time we might have a different conversation.

I think we should be very happy with Bernard's goal return tbh. It is pretty clearly not what his game is about so the way he's chipped in has been a real bonus thus far.
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I am struggling to remember Bernard firing off many amazing shots at goal (but I have had a couple), however even without an amazing shot I still think he can get 8/10 goals for us, if he just shoots more! He has a tremendous first touch, but it seems to me like there are times when he looks for a pass, when he could try his luck. He is good enough to pick a spot, even if he doesn’t have the power of others. Hopefully Carlo can encourage him to have more faith in what he can do and he can find an extra level, it’s not impossible. At this point, he is the only winger we have, who I am happy we have. Iwobi (is he a winger?) and Walcott aren’t good enough long term, i would rather have a Lookman back! I really hope Bernard gets a run of starts and ups his return. We need his class in the team regardless, but we also need goals from midfield, which are in very short supply, especially with the decline of Sig, and the midfield in general. With a run under Carlo I reckon he can double his total. Hopefully a couple on Sunday
 
Cmonefcsortitout! said:
I am struggling to remember Bernard firing off many amazing shots at goal (but I have had a couple), however even without an amazing shot I still think he can get 8/10 goals for us, if he just shoots more! He has a tremendous first touch, but it seems to me like there are times when he looks for a pass, when he could try his luck. He is good enough to pick a spot, even if he doesn’t have the power of others. Hopefully Carlo can encourage him to have more faith in what he can do and he can find an extra level, it’s not impossible. At this point, he is the only winger we have, who I am happy we have. Iwobi (is he a winger?) and Walcott aren’t good enough long term, i would rather have a Lookman back! I really hope Bernard gets a run of starts and ups his return. We need his class in the team regardless, but we also need goals from midfield, which are in very short supply, especially with the decline of Sig, and the midfield in general. With a run under Carlo I reckon he can double his total. Hopefully a couple on Sunday
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That's what I'm saying though. It isn't so simple as saying "Shoot more" and magically the guy shoots and scores more frequently. Getting shots off is a skill.
 
He’s brilliant but I have no issue with Ancelotti rotating him. He’s shown he isn’t always able to complete a full game and Carlo is still trying to suss out his players so it’s not an issue.
 
One goal last season - three this season in all competitions. Not good enough.

Upgrade urgently required but I suppose he has to start on sunday.

He has no pace on the outside so is very limited as a winger but he has a clever footballing mind. Nonetheless
I reckon wan-baissaka will be too big and strong for him. I hope I will be wrong.

My beef with all our wingers is that they do not cross the ball enough. We have a number 9 who can jump like a salmon
but never gets a chance. Imagine Joe Royle without Morrissey...
 

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