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Bill Kenwright

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Tom Hughes said:
You say you're not defending things, then go on to try to defend the indefensible with nonsensical platitudes.

How could we not afford the kings dock when a member of our own board was literally offering to pay our contribution? The same directors were paid off by Green/Earl.....

Kirkby wasn't only on the table because "people were demanding us to spend money" at all. We needed to address our stadium issues..... it was supposed to be the "stadium effectively for nothing" it was driven by our silent partners wanting to build a massive shopping mall in a strategic location that couldn't possibly get planning permission without our pretend "community based" stadium development. All built on lies and the at the behest of our retail led schemers.

You mean the "generic fantasy stuff" that has been the reality for all our supposed peer group and many more besides. ALL of whom did more to address their stadium issues and increase their income.

Your attempt to soft soap layers and layers of cock ups, lies and failures is astounding. "Everyone with money is a fraudster"....... oh dear. Why not go to a bank then? Of course, you can't do that when you've run the place into the ground and sold off all of the material assets.

You're right, we don't have to come up with anything new.... the evidence is all there and always was. You're just making stuff up as you go along...... like Everton forums with 95% in support of BK?

www.theguardian.com

Philip Green, Vibrac and Riverdance: the mystery of Everton’s ‘shadow investor’

An MP’s question in October detailed rumours of Sir Phillip Green’s involvement at Goodison, but is there any connection between the retail magnate and companies who have lent millions of pounds to Premier League clubs?
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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You are sugar coating that a lot mate.

People know it wasnt a contribution by Gregg it was a reverse mortgage that would have taken the ownership stake in Kings Dock out of the club, charged interest on repayments and the stake was only ever 40% any way and a default would have left the club homeless -- likely paying rent to said Paul Gregg or an Everton Director - does this sound like someone who had the clubs best well being at heart - shark. People would be concerned if that deal was on the table for BMD. Was Bill chairman during KD even - was it not Sr. Philip Carter, acknowledged as one of the most visionary chairman throughout football for his forward thinking in the game and over seeing the most successful period of the club. Id have a high threshold for critisicing Sr Philip, i dont think anyone can critise a Sr Philip led board of not protecting and safeguarding the clubs welbeing.

You contradict yourself contentiously, on one hand you say the club was left behind because of the profits on KD when football was awash (we were a minor stakeholder 49% in the development). Then when an opportunity to do the same thing in Kirkby because you didnt like the location, your opinion changes - if your interest is revenue generation the stadium shouldn't matter really. Im not saying i was all in DK, but that if the same premise applies to KD then it must also apply to DK - but your opinion isnt congruent for its source reason.

Framing things is interesting balancing the books and living within ourmeans vs stagnating - they are just frames depending on where you are in the debate. We spent the last season wishing we had been run more prudently and balancing the books - what people were descrining was how we were run under Bill, it was fairly funny. When Bill was majority owner we did that in the main and maintained PL status unlike many of our peers, to maintain and transition the club from a Div 1 club to a club with permanent PL parameters and budgets - we broke the glass ceiling even in CL, cup finals etc - during the biggest boom in football ever. Can you critise a man for doing - what he never promised to do - he was always open that he didnt have the personal finance - he never promised it. There fore ill never critisce him for not pumping money he didnt have into the club - he also said hed find the right investor - someone who would invest in the club and build a stadium - he sold the club with those conditions be met on the staggered release of his shareholding - that is incredible stuff - incredible that he for went his own personal financial wealth for the wellbeing and best interests of the club. You can dress it up any way you like, we balanced the books, ran us better then we are at the moment, broke the glass ceiling on the CL, made up a perineal PL club with a permanent budget and sold like he always said he would with clear incremental conditions to be met before releasing his shareholding.

For me that worth a hell of a lot more then Phillip Green rumors and wishing wed sold our soul to Paul Gregg on a reverse mortgage - no thanks.
 
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grandjoeblue said:
Bill is a very poor leader but isn't a bad negotiator. After being used to being skint for years he's reasonably ok at agreeing deals.

We still should get rid as soon as we can.
Click to expand...

This is a great point, the scale of deals is done in Jan and this summer - puts all previous DOF to shame. Its my understanding he led out on Jan window, he and Lampard have been the alphas this window, though Ken has grown into it in terms of influence in the last month or so.
 
Neiler said:
You are sugar coating that a lot mate.

People know it wasnt a contribution by Gregg it was a reverse mortgage that would have taken the ownership stake in Kings Dock out of the club, charged interest on repayments and the stake was only ever 40% any way and a default would have left the club homeless -- likely paying rent to said Paul Gregg or an Everton Director - does this sound like someone who had the clubs best well being at heart - shark. People would be concerned if that deal was on the table for BMD. Was Bill chairman during KD even - was it not Sr. Philip Carter, acknowledged as one of the most visionary chairman throughout football for his forward thinking in the game and over seeing the most successful period of the club. Id have a high threshold for critisicing Sr Philip, i dont think anyone can critise a Sr Philip led board of not protecting and safeguarding the clubs welbeing.

You contradict yourself contentiously, on one hand you say the club was left behind because of the profits on KD when football was awash (we were a minor stakeholder 49% in the development). Then when an opportunity to do the same thing in Kirkby because you didnt like the location, your opinion changes - if your interest is revenue generation the stadium shouldn't matter really. Im not saying i was all in DK, but that if the same premise applies to KD then it must also apply to DK - but your opinion isnt congruent for its source reason.

Framing things is interesting balancing the books and living within ourmeans vs stagnating - they are just frames depending on where you are in the debate. We spent the last season wishing we had been run more prudently and balancing the books - what people were descrining was how we were run under Bill, it was fairly funny. When Bill was majority owner we did that in the main and maintained PL status unlike many of our peers, to maintain and transition the club from a Div 1 club to a club with permanent PL parameters and budgets - we broke the glass ceiling even in CL, cup finals etc - during the biggest boom in football ever. Can you critise a man for doing - what he never promised to do - he was always open that he didnt have the personal finance - he never promised it. There fore ill never critisce him for not pumping money he didnt have into the club - he also said hed find the right investor - someone who would invest in the club and build a stadium - he sold the club with those conditions be met on the staggered release of his shareholding - that is incredible stuff - incredible that he for went his own personal financial wealth for the wellbeing and best interests of the club. You can dress it up any way you like, we balanced the books, ran us better then we are at the moment, broke the glass ceiling on the CL, made up a perineal PL club with a permanent budget and sold like he always said he would with clear incremental conditions to be met before releasing his shareholding.

For me that worth a hell of a lot more then Phillip Green rumors and wishing wed sold our soul to Paul Gregg on a reverse mortgage - no thanks.
Click to expand...

It would take the whole of Tate and Lyles to sugar coat the litany of failures, cock ups and plain lies under BK. The list is endless.

The reverse mortgage was secured from within the board, not external. No institutional net loss! It was also for a trivial amount, as over half of our contribution was still coming from the sale of other property assets (we still owned several then). So any internal cost was minimal.... especially when compared to the obvious financial benefits. Apart from gifted athletics stadia, it was by far the biggest leveraged stadium deal in the UK ever. Arsenal's chairman at the time said it was the deal of the century. It was also comfortably the most advanced stadium in the country (and would still be now).The problem was that it may have resulted in a slight change of structure or equity within the board..... so what? If he was providing the vehicle to realise the ambition, why shouldn't he benefit? The others had proven they couldn't deliver with delay after delay requiring extensions from the coucil and cost increases. He obviously had little or no faith in the rest to deliver or their governance. This view was vindicated by Trevor Birch who said the same not long after and all subsequent events further back that up. We were not minor shareholders at.... we were the largest stakeholder and the same board member owned the operating company for the other stake holders. We essentially were running the whole show.
If the Greggs were sharks why did he engage them in the first place? He'd known them for years. If you want to talk about sharks or costs to the club, ask yourself how he managed to acquire a shareholding valued many times higher than his personal wealth..... and in the same period the club endured the lowest net spend and smallest infrastructure spend in the league? Coincidence? Ask why he lied about remortgaging his house when asked that question at an AGM. Green is not a rumour.... Wyness was paid off on his yacht. Nor was Samuelson, he was presented at the AGM as an Evertonian with BKs backing. Nor were the multiple other lies exposed at AGMs, the public Inquiry and elsewhere. I'm sorry, but you cannot wash over all of that with talk of a handful of matches in Europe. Other clubs have had hundreds of European matches.

You're conflating Moyes' achievements (to deliver despite the board and not because of it) and completely ignoring the board's failures to support their manager financially, to address those stadium issues, to increase commercial performance when ALL other clubs managed to and all of our peer group were also able to deliver that and outspend us at the same time too.

When Moyes left the football club our a managed-decline shoestring model collapsed within a couple of years, as all his work was undone..... but let's be clear, the occasional short foray into europe and no trophies for decades cannot ever be viewed as success for a club with our history....far from it! That is nonsense almost to the point of obscenity.

He then had to sell because we'd literally been run into the ground and there was nothing left to pawn off. He managed to find a mug with a fat cheque book to pay off the massive debts he'd accrued.... and still leave him in charge of the train set. How's that gone for us?

We're now paying £550-700m for a stadium that has less capacity, less corporate, less flexibility/revenue streams than a stadium we could've had 20yrs ago for £30m.... with all that lost revenue and lost opportunity cost of increased status or sale to new owners in the interim. We've still got no idea how that financial model works as the expected sponsor is sanctioned and the owner is so far having to pay for the lot as a favourable loan has not been secured.

Yet somehow you're trying to 'frame" all of that as success and accusing me of sugar coating? Really?
 

Mademan said:
I hope are much maligned board get the credit they’ll deserve if they trouser this Gordon money.
Click to expand...
Selling a boyhood blue who has played one season for us. The money may be good but the wider story is rotten. We cannot keep the talents we develop because of our hopeless financial position.
 

F0E5042C-A94D-4B80-B126-2081A2AC52A2.webp
 

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