Braziian Protests Against the World Cup and Corruption

[pfim]

I've got to be honest here, this is a steaming pile of Horse-Dung and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Any major sporting event can be a major catalyst in the re-invigoration of an economy, of unused or derelict property. I'm not condoning what's going on in Brazil by any means, and I can only go on what happened for the Sydney Games but it has a positive effect on every aspect of this Society.

It mobilised people and business, it put on a show for the World and how can you look at such a huge investment negatively? The overflow effects and the re-invigoration or even creation of Infrastructure you might have had to wait another hundred years for otherwise is always a positive in growing population.

How you deal with this after the games are over takes a good five to ten years to get into the swing of becoming regular parts of the Cities life, but they do.

If they don't, then you did it wrong in the first place, or you have the wrong plan in place.

Or you held the games in the wrong place to begin with.

It's too simple to say "it worked in Sydney so it should work everywhere" or "these projects are all white elephants."

Certainly the existence of an already strong infrastructure will allow a place like Sydney to take advantage of the structural benefits of a large sporting event. I don't think you can say the same with Brazil, South Africa...where levels of corruption are high.

FIFA doesn't care because they're getting paid one way or the other, but holding these events in places where much of the infrastructure isn't in place to begin with is a recipe for disaster.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

Or you held the games in the wrong place to begin with.

It's too simple to say "it worked in Sydney so it should work everywhere" or "these projects are all white elephants."

Certainly the existence of an already strong infrastructure will allow a place like Sydney to take advantage of the structural benefits of a large sporting event. I don't think you can say the same with Brazil, South Africa...where levels of corruption are high.

FIFA doesn't care because they're getting paid one way or the other, but holding these events in places where much of the infrastructure isn't in place to begin with is a recipe for disaster.

Exactly- Its great that it worked for Sydney. And by all accounts Germany seemed to have reinvigorate football and push it to the next level. London also, while very expensive, won't have too many negative implications.
But those are already developed, modern, wealthy hosts. Effectively for them having a successful event is the absence of ballsups. For Athens, South Africa, Brazil (Rio getting the double whammy with Olympics 2016 too) people will simply not feel the benefit. Revenue generated is huge, breaking records with every new world cup or olympics, but don't be fooled into thinking that any regular people or the society at whole will benefit from the hosting of a large scale event.
The benefits to the person in the street is just the increase in happiness. That's it.
Because while like you say infrastructure that would otherwise not be developed is built, the benefit of all these new roads and highways and stadia dissipate quite quickly.
The point is this: FIFA should only be giving world cups to developing countries if they're happy to throw these world cups at their own means. Either use existing facilities, or privately fund the huge development.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

Every Brazilian wants to host the World Cup.
No one wants to do so at the expense of having access to hospitals, food, and basic services.
Brazil's hosting of the World Cup is happening at a massive cost to its people.
There is no future economic benefit that will offset this given time.
The same happened in South Africa and the same will happen in Russia.
Qatar isn't exactly the greatest model of a democracy so different story.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Every Brazilian wants to host the World Cup.
No one wants to do so at the expense of having access to hospitals, food, and basic services.
Brazil's hosting of the World Cup is happening at a massive cost to its people.
There is no future economic benefit that will offset this given time.
The same happened in South Africa and the same will happen in Russia.
Qatar isn't exactly the greatest model of a democracy so different story.

What can be done though?

Do they want FIFA to move it? Will that even help?

They should have protested this 4 years ago really

I can't see what will happen now. FIFA aren't going to put their hands in their pockets to cover the costs

 

[pfim]

Well, 4 years ago the economy was better in Brazil, growing, and inflation wasn't such an issue.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Well, 4 years ago the economy was better in Brazil, growing, and inflation wasn't such an issue.

Sounds harsh but shouldn't they have considered that the economy might get worse?

 

[Interchangeableknife]

Sounds harsh but shouldn't they have considered that the economy might get worse?

Economics - not called the 'dismal science' for nothing!

 

[McBain]

So we are saying that the only people that should hold large Sporting Events are Us Civilised Westerners?

I'm pretty sure the reason 'vendors' can't sell 'merchandise' because they'll sell dodgy knock offs. If the people of Brazil don't want to stage the World Cup, then give it back. Give it to someone who will do it gladly. If you can't afford it, then why go through all the trouble of Bidding for it?

If a Country of 197 Million people, the single most Successful Country to have ever played in the World Cup cannot even stage the Tournament then what a sorry state of affairs. If Hosting the World Cup causes such a public uproar about the lack of basic services you need, then what were you doing before? Why were you not in the streets demanding these things in the past? Where you? Maybe you were but now you will be heard. With the Worlds attention on, you make it count, Brazilians. It took the World Cup landing on your doorstep for you to wake up and be heard. Once again the beautiful game reignites a stagnant population to action. If you have a bunch of Corrupt Politicians, get rid of them! Oust them from Power! What have you been waiting for? The World Cup?

And BTW Australia will gladly do it if your not up to it, mates! We love a good Sporting Ding Dong.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

So we are saying that the only people that should hold large Sporting Events are Us Civilised Westerners?

I'm pretty sure the reason 'vendors' can't sell 'merchandise' because they'll sell dodgy knock offs. If the people of Brazil don't want to stage the World Cup, then give it back. Give it to someone who will do it gladly. If you can't afford it, then why go through all the trouble of Bidding for it?

If a Country of 197 Million people, the single most Successful Country to have ever played in the World Cup cannot even stage the Tournament then what a sorry state of affairs. If Hosting the World Cup causes such a public uproar about the lack of basic services you need, then what were you doing before? Why were you not in the streets demanding these things in the past? Where you? Maybe you were but now you will be heard. With the Worlds attention on, you make it count, Brazilians. It took the World Cup landing on your doorstep for you to wake up and be heard. Once again the beautiful game reignites a stagnant population to action. If you have a bunch of Corrupt Politicians, get rid of them! Oust them from Power! What have you been waiting for? The World Cup?

And BTW Australia will gladly do it if your not up to it, mates! We love a good Sporting Ding Dong.

No see the mistake is that its believed that these world cups should cost billions billions of dollars to host. They don't.
For example South Africa regularly hosts and has hosted massive international tournaments in Rugby and Cricket all the time. The logistics worked. The stadia are filled. The games get televised. The event is financed by private sponsors. Only FIFA demand that countries commit billions for their premier event.


The point is this- if what FIFA wants is super stadia and bullet trains from airports to games and sanitized clean whatever then host every World Cup in Qatar where the desires of the people are not expressed, let alone ignored. Or in the developed world where these things can be afforded.
But if FIFA want to host World Cups in the developing world, they will simply have to lower their prerequisites- i assure you the billions currently spent in hosting the event is absolutely excessive.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

The recent hosts of the African Cup of Nations tournaments (Angola, Equatorial Guinea, South Africa) had to spend millions millions millions to host their games, building white elephants and developing infrastructure under the pretense by FIFA that the hosting of the tournament was a means towards developing the country (this is why AFCON is hosted every 2nd year, allows more countries to develop football infrastructure)...
Now if this is the case though, why did South African host cities have to cough up millions and millions and millions of Rands to host games in 2013, 3 years after hosting a World Cup? Hosting these events generate money internally, and FIFA and the politicians who bring the games in benefit from them. Not the general public.

 

[pfim]

So we are saying that the only people that should hold large Sporting Events are Us Civilised Westerners?

No, but when you bid for these things and deliver your proposal to FIFA for vote, there is the expectation that money will be spent in the name of holding the World Cup. If you don't include a certain level of capital, then your bid stands no chance.

Brazil have 6-7 existing stadiums with capacities exceeding 45k, why are they building or upgrading stadiums as part of their bid?

Why are they building a stadium in Brasilia, which does not have a club in the top two divisions of Brazilian football?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anderso...brazil-really-handle-the-2014-fifa-world-cup/

Still, we have to be clear that this is what’s going on: a transfer of wealth from Brazil as a whole to various interest groups inside and outside the country.

The cost of holding a World Cup is determined by what infrastructure exists, and vanity. Certainly, much of what is being done in Brazil is completely unnecessary to hold a World Cup, and is driven by something other than logic or reason.

 

[bflefc]

Brazil have 6-7 existing stadiums with capacities exceeding 45k, why are they building or upgrading stadiums as part of their bid?

Why are they building a stadium in Brasilia, which does not have a club in the top two divisions of Brazilian football?

.

Because FIFA place all manner of ridiculous criteria on host venues (stadiums as well as the city itself).

All the stadiums have to have a particular number of corporate/boxes plus enough space for their media centre to be accommodated on-site (or nearby).

They also have to be able to throw a ring around it conveniently, which in essences means the stadium is a FIFA-controlled enclave for about 6 weeks. They dictate what goes on inside, and what moves in/out.

A stadium with a sizeable capacity won't necessarily meet FIFA's lengthy criteria list. The Morumbei in Sao Paolo is a superb ground to watch a game in, steeped in history. But it falls way short of the '5-star grading' that makes every FIFA official moist (and wealthy(.

 

[McBain]

No see the mistake is that its believed that these world cups should cost billions billions of dollars to host. They don't.
For example South Africa regularly hosts and has hosted massive international tournaments in Rugby and Cricket all the time. The logistics worked. The stadia are filled. The games get televised. The event is financed by private sponsors. Only FIFA demand that countries commit billions for their premier event.

The point is this- if what FIFA wants is super stadia and bullet trains from airports to games and sanitized clean whatever then host every World Cup in Qatar where the desires of the people are not expressed, let alone ignored. Or in the developed world where these things can be afforded.
But if FIFA want to host World Cups in the developing world, they will simply have to lower their prerequisites- i assure you the billions currently spent in hosting the event is absolutely excessive.

Agree with this fully. There has to be a certain level of infrastructure in place, but definitely one that is achievable to the Country hosting the event.

No, but when you bid for these things and deliver your proposal to FIFA for vote, there is the expectation that money will be spent in the name of holding the World Cup. If you don't include a certain level of capital, then your bid stands no chance.

Brazil have 6-7 existing stadiums with capacities exceeding 45k, why are they building or upgrading stadiums as part of their bid?

Why are they building a stadium in Brasilia, which does not have a club in the top two divisions of Brazilian football?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anderso...brazil-really-handle-the-2014-fifa-world-cup/

The cost of holding a World Cup is determined by what infrastructure exists, and vanity. Certainly, much of what is being done in Brazil is completely unnecessary to hold a World Cup, and is driven by something other than logic or reason.

Yep, this makes sense.

Because FIFA place all manner of ridiculous criteria on host venues (stadiums as well as the city itself).

All the stadiums have to have a particular number of corporate/boxes plus enough space for their media centre to be accommodated on-site (or nearby).

They also have to be able to throw a ring around it conveniently, which in essences means the stadium is a FIFA-controlled enclave for about 6 weeks. They dictate what goes on inside, and what moves in/out.

A stadium with a sizeable capacity won't necessarily meet FIFA's lengthy criteria list. The Morumbei in Sao Paolo is a superb ground to watch a game in, steeped in history. But it falls way short of the '5-star grading' that makes every FIFA official moist (and wealthy(.

Well there has to be a certain criteria for the media and the 'wealthy' to enjoy the event as there always has been. I would suggest holding Fifa to ransom with the Truth. Such a Dodgy organisation anyway.

 

[The Hibbert Agenda]

I highly recommend to any of you interested to read this article by Swiss Ramble about FIFA's internal financing model and the World Cups.
Very helpful in explaining just why it is that FIFA demands such high standards in hosting these World Cups.
They're revenue generators, and while they support world football and football development, we all know that there's a more sinister profiteering angle at work too.

http://swissramble.blogspot.ch/2013/06/fifa-world-cup-everybody-wants-to-rule.html

enjoy.