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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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riddick said:
I'm not calling for Carlo to be sacked at all but it's undeniable that he got it wrong the last 3 matches. I can "excuse" the Southampton match because they did that last year as well and that seems to be a problem with a very high and intense press but to lose to a very poor Utd and Newcastle? That's really inexcusable. At the VERY least if he knows his entire gameplan revolves around Richarlison, he should be making us hard to beat. And, yet, the last 3 we've let in 7 goals. We've let in 2 or more in every match this season bar the first. We've brought in damn near a world class foward and someone who was touted for 90m a year before along with another 20m midfielder and we're stiiilllllll poor in midfield. Is all this on Carlo? Of course not. But he watches the team in training every week and then, more importantly, he watches the team when it actually matters and he STILL picks players like Gylfi.

No manager should ever be immune from criticism or questioning. We have no idea what our plan B is when Richarlison is out and that's massively worrying because it's unlikely he'll be here next year unless we make CL or win a trophy. Does anyone know what Doucoure is supposed to be doing? Or we need at least 3 goals to win every match so far bar 1? I don't think these are unrealistic questions to ask someone of Carlo's level. Carlo is here for the long term and I doubt we ever sack him at all which I'm fine with. We've tried everything else, if we cannot get the players to respond to someone like Carlo then we truly are screwed.
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find it ludicrous to pin the united loss on Ancelotti, the first two goals are some of the most atrocious defending I've ever witnessed
 
blulouie said:
Kloppe took a good while for his team to click , but you want to change Carlo after his first full season with the team of crabs he inherited ?

Most know this is no overnight fix , so talk of punting a manager before he's got his own players in in lunacy.

A top keeper and right winger ( that might not be available til next summer)
then time to work with them should be the only time to start judging him.
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Agree, no way should there be any realistic conversation about Ancelotti being sacked this season. Everyone knows he is a fantastic, experienced manager and deserves a period of time to bring in his own players and change the dynamics of the team.

But, as others have said, the club have shown ambition in making him one of the best paid managers in Europe, so it is also sensible to agree some goals, drawing some lines in the sand on what is an acceptable target this season. He has a big reputation and needs to deliver too.

Though it's true they started from a better position, it's also true that the best, elite managers get fast results. Mourinho, Conte, Guardiola and Ancelotti himself in the past all showed quick improvements in league position and cups within 12-18 months. Even Klopp you mention, took a very average Liverpool team to the Europa League final in his 1st season, then went from finishing 8th to 4th in his first full season. Pochettino took Spurs from 6th to 3rd and a cup final in the same period of time.

With CA, I think it is realistic to expect good things, but not too fast. From a disappointing 12th last year, I think CA will target the cups because it is so important to win something and get into Europe after a long time. The league is so strong and it will be so tough to finish even 8th or higher. With Man Utd, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, Leicester and Wolves all around those places.

My view would be that anything lower than 9th and not going far in the cups would be truly disappointing. Even then I would want him to stay. As fans, we just need to be patient and keep supporting the team.
 
Lanolin said:
I agree with you in the main. I think it's important to note though, that he'll probably never get the team he wants. He's going to have to make do with less than ideal players for at least the next couple of years, if not permanently. I think it's fair to expect him to get a little bit more out of what we've got to be honest, you'd be hard pushed to say that anyone other than DCL has really kicked on over the last 10 months, and that's disappointing.

I'd say the general consensus would be that next year (assuming we keep the same set up etc) we'll need a new keeper, right back, third midfielder and attacker of some variety. That's just the key ones. Then i think it's almost guaranteed that Richarlison will want to go if we haven't achieved anything. Then we'll get the whole 'you can't lose your best player and bring 5/6 new players in and expect them all to gel' argument and all of a sudden it's 2 and a half years down the line and you're no further on. At some point we've got to actually show serious improvement, otherwise all this flashing the cash is just a complete waste.
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Holgate and Keane definately have improved under CA. Look we'd love to have a team of superstars but even CA will know that isn't happening anytime soon. I just think like any manager, you have to give him his choices. We have improved, we are very much in the the European race this season and ok while we have lost 3 after winning 7 in a row, start of the season we'd have taken p10 w7 as animprovement wouldn't we?

As long as we are improving in general, adding players who are quality and progressing later on in the season. We have to accept we are going to have blips or poor games here and there as we aren't a top teamin the league. We have mediocre players still in and around the starting XI.

I get your points and yes we all are desperate to see a serious improvement, I just think it's a little early considering CA has two of his choices in (on the assumption Doucoure was more Brands based on previous interest).

The club are showing ambition that I have never seen in my life, they, and CA deserve some time to get that ambition to become evidenced.
 
number4. said:
Yeah that seems fair enough TBH - it's the lack of a defined playing style that would be my primary concern; I appreciate you have to adapt from time to time, but a team that is expecting to win more matches than it loses, needs to impose themselves on the opposition more often than we do. Yes the signings are positive, but I do wonder where we would already be under Poch, Rodgers, Simeone, or even Pep or Klopp.
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100%, I also think we are unlucky, as we try to get rid of some of the useless players Covid hits and players want even more to stay under a big contract

Me saying Ancelotti Out was only taking the mick, he's a great manager, would like to see him get more out of some of our meh players like other managers do, but as I say we need to get rid of some of the trash we have
 
andy4efc said:
Holgate and Keane definately have improved under CA. Look we'd love to have a team of superstars but even CA will know that isn't happening anytime soon. I just think like any manager, you have to give him his choices. We have improved, we are very much in the the European race this season and ok while we have lost 3 after winning 7 in a row, start of the season we'd have taken p10 w7 as animprovement wouldn't we?

As long as we are improving in general, adding players who are quality and progressing later on in the season. We have to accept we are going to have blips or poor games here and there as we aren't a top teamin the league. We have mediocre players still in and around the starting XI.

I get your points and yes we all are desperate to see a serious improvement, I just think it's a little early considering CA has two of his choices in (on the assumption Doucoure was more Brands based on previous interest).

The club are showing ambition that I have never seen in my life, they, and CA deserve some time to get that ambition to become evidenced.
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Holgate's improvement had started under Silva, he didn't really get better in the second half of the season. I'm also not sure that we can justifiably say the centre halves have improved, and that his 2 big signings in midfield are good, when we're conceding more goals than we ever did. Keane looks individually better, but he's part of a defence that looks almost constantly in a state of panic. I think his improvement is a little overstated if i'm honest.

I don't really see the point in including the league cup games when talking about form; it adds 2 wins that we'd expect to have got in any season, it's just a stat padder. In the league we're 7th, which isn't a bad position, if we stay there i'll be relatively happy. We've probably got about the same amount of points as I would have expected from the fixtures we've had I reckon, just not necessarily picking them up in the games I would have thought. Losing 3 games on the bounce is bad though. None of last season's top 8 lost 3 in a row all season, to put it into some context. Sheffield United in 9th did it once, the last 3 games of the season. It's really not surprising that people aren't happy with the current results because it's very much midtable form, and we all want better than that.
 

Pat Butcher said:
100%, I also think we are unlucky, as we try to get rid of some of the useless players Covid hits and players want even more to stay under a big contract

Me saying Ancelotti Out was only taking the mick, he's a great manager, would like to see him get more out of some of our meh players like other managers do, but as I say we need to get rid of some of the trash we have
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Yeah this makes sense and without anyone jumping down my throat; I think the worst thing that could happen now is for us to qualify for Europa league next season. Let me explain...

CA needs a ruthless transfer window, where he clears the decks of all the rubbish, which is probably more that 10 players that need to go. I think the variables around recruiting during covid prevented that this summer & if we qualified for Europa next year, we would be in the same boat; you simply can't have a proper clear out.

Should the long term goal be CL football the year after next the Europa would be a disaster, not only does it block remodellign the squad, it also acts as a handicap in the league, in terms of points
 
neilsyd said:
I don't understand how fans give the "lets be positive shouts" and how they attack the "negativity" shouts from other fans after 3 losses. How do you not understand that fans watch their team play and are so desperate for them to win that when they stink the gaff out they react by attacking the person who is in charge???
If football fans never criticised then football would be awfully boring and there would be zero emotion.
I am desperate for us to win every week, so much so that it affects my day when we don't win. I wish it didn't.
So by investing so much time into supporting a club, spending money on the club and it taking up quite a lot of my time from a conversation an thought perspective, I, and other people, have every right to question certain things.
Coming back with "He's won trophies before" and "who else do you expect us to get" is the worst, the very worst responses that people who are frustrated, want to hear.
If it was all about trophies on a resume, then Van Gaal would still be in a job, cleaning up at Man Utd, Capello would be smashing it with England and Mourinho probably wouldn't be at Tottenham. And Poch probably wouldn't be so coveted. Listen, I like Carlo. He seems a great guy. He's great in the media, he attracts better players than we could normally, and he gives us a higher profile.
However, his successes have been quite some time ago, and he's been sacked from many roles of late. His last three jobs? And Chelsea? I get that managers are sacked regularly but lets not make him out to be Alex Ferguson. I am by no means calling for his head, or are the fans on this thread. They are just questioning the fact that we have dropped 11 points out of our last 12, when really, people were expecting to win some of the games. We may win our next two games and he's a hero again. But we haven't yet, so were frustrated.
Why don't you come back with..."We're tighter at the back", "you can see the style of play changing" "You can see the youth getting chances" or something that a manager would try and implement within a year. We just aren't really seeing that yet.
If we went on the Sigurdsson thread, we'd probably find one positive comment in the last 125 pages. Yet Carlo picks him every week. He's played every single game under Carlo, the majority starting. And if we criticise that, we get "we don't know as much as Carlo shouts". Yet we speak about Sigurdsson like he's Hitler. Carlo has him as captain sometimes!
In reality, none of us are as qualified as Bobby Martinez, Marco Silva, Sam Allardyce, or certainly Ronald Koeman. But we were still happy to get rid of them and toss them aside like they knew nothing about football.
Yet Carlo has this halo over his head when in reality, this is his hardest and leftfield job he's took in his career.
Southampton are flying with a manager who's won nothing. Rodgers, celtic aside, very similar yet they are up and coming managers with something to prove. Would I rather have Carlo??? His CV suggests so. Yet CVs have a lifespan and then people tail off. Otherwise, as I said, people like Fabio Capello would still be attracting top clubs.
I am not criticizing Ancelotti here. I happy to give him time and see what happens in the next two years. Yet I am concerned that we leak goals, we show little fight still and our team lacks some pace. I think we are set up wrong and some of the subs and team selections aren't good.
We as fans have a right to criticise. No one is saying they're right, but we all judge football with our eyes. Not CVs. We all want us to win so badly that we all react differently. Anyhow, rant over.
Up the toffees!!!
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we have played 7 games mate.
 

Carlo will get it right. It just takes time to overhaul the squad. Going into the season we would all have been happy enough to finish top half, maybe a crack at the top 6 and a cup run. As it stands, we’re still in with a shout of all those things. If we can make a couple of shrewd signings in January who knows how we may end up this season.

Plenty for Carlo to address, particularly defensively but I’m sure we’ll get there.
 
Anti said:
not sure what you are talking about here neil
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I just mean the notion that Ancelotti can't be blamed for defensive mistakes from individual players then he surely cant take any praise when a goal is scored from some individual brilliance or some nice piece of play. Listen, I understand that on the pitch, the players are fundamentally the difference in what wins or loses you the games but a manager's responsibilities collectively have a big influence on how they perform on the pitch.
If we are making errors every week then these players are not performing to the best of their abilities or the set up is completely wrong. I mean, a manager's duties are to improve/coach players, man manage them to try and improve their confidence and their focus. Whilst also instilling belief in his team that they can win. Individual errors are still a small part of the manager's collective responsibility for me.
 

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