2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[cjuk87]

Would you agree that it’s fair to criticise some of the decisions he’s made recently that he’s got badly wrong and have cost us? Because that’s all most people in here are doing. There’s absolutely no serious talk of sacking him whatsoever, that’s just something that’s been invented by people who can’t accept that he’s made questionable decisions recently that are being called out.

Anyone calling for him to be sacked at this moment in time is a lunatic and an idiot. Anyone refusing to acknowledge that he’s made a lot of poor judgement calls recently is naive.

Completely mate. I think it's ignorant to not call a manager or player out if they make poor decisions, just because they're liked. It's all about balance.

I should mention that a lot of the overreactions have been on Twitter, not here. Perspective is needed by some. Everton will always be the best team in the world in my eyes, I genuinely love them, but....if I took off the blue tinted glasses, some of our fans place us MUCH higher than where we deserve to be currently. Fans need to be realistic. We've gone from Big Sam to Carlo. We have some incredibly talented players, but we also have a lot of deadwood still.

Carlo needs time to have his team, his squad, his way of playing firmly instilled. We've seen some great football and some terrible football under him. He's made some great decisions and some terrible ones. Patience is needed.

One key factor that most are missing is we're in what seems to be an incredibly strange season. Most teams aren't performing and can have points taken off them. We also had no preseason and the shortest time between seasons. Which really doesn't help a squad as unfit (and dare I say lazy) as ours.

 

[kenada_blue]

"Carlo isn't good enough"

Schniederfraud?

Someone who actually tackles

 

[catcherintherye]

I'm not going to slaughter him either, but without wanting to keep repeating myself in different threads, let's not make out like we've set up for a long term project here. We've signed a lot of players at their peak on relatively short contracts, the idea that we need to give it 3 years to see it come to fruition just doesn't stack up. If that was the plan we should have invested in younger players, be playing the younger players we have, and to be perfectly honest, probably have employed a manager with a track record of improving teams in that way. We appear to have done things as if we're trying to accelerate the process, so if we don't then it's a failure. It doesn't mean he'll have to be sacked or whatever, but it will still be a failure.

I appreciate I wrote a reasonable counter to this yesterday, however one thing I would add, is that if Ancelotti keeps making certain decisions, and we keep losing games following it, he will come under criticism.

I think we have both been fairly balanced on the question of Gordon, or indeed Nknonkou playing. I've tried to avoid flying off the handle as I don't think it merits it. However I can completely understand why people are growing frustrated when square pegs are placed in the round holes they can fill.

If you are going to do something mad, like play a number 10, who has 1 games experience as a very right footed player as right wing back to left wing back, to then accomodate a central midfield player who can barely get on the pitch in his own position to right wing back to avoid playing someone who looks to be a natural, left sided wing back that is a really big call. It's fine if it comes off and you win the game it's fine. However if you lose the game, and in truth the lad shifted to left wing back at no point looks comfortable, you are open to criticism and there's not much defence that can be made.

I'm sure Ancelotti is aware of that, and in honesty not really bothered by it. Any manager is entitled to make big, perhaps even controversial decisions, but if they keep going wrong then you do open yourself up.

 

[Toffe3m4n]

I appreciate I wrote a reasonable counter to this yesterday, however one thing I would add, is that if Ancelotti keeps making certain decisions, and we keep losing games following it, he will come under criticism.

I think we have both been fairly balanced on the question of Gordon, or indeed Nknonkou playing. I've tried to avoid flying off the handle as I don't think it merits it. However I can completely understand why people are growing frustrated when square pegs are placed in the round holes they can fill.

If you are going to do something mad, like play a number 10, who has 1 games experience as a very right footed player as right wing back to left wing back, to then accomodate a central midfield player who can barely get on the pitch in his own position to right wing back to avoid playing someone who looks to be a natural, left sided wing back that is a really big call. It's fine if it comes off and you win the game it's fine. However if you lose the game, and in truth the lad shifted to left wing back at no point looks comfortable, you are open to criticism and there's not much defence that can be made.

I'm sure Ancelotti is aware of that, and in honesty not really bothered by it. Any manager is entitled to make big, perhaps even controversial decisions, but if they keep going wrong then you do open yourself up.

This is what I'm hoping, that there's some consensus at the club that he's got the nod to mess around a bit with the current squad this season to at least see if something sticks.

As you say though, he really can't keep this up if results continue to suffer for it.

 

[catcherintherye]

This is what I'm hoping, that there's some consensus at the club that he's got the nod to mess around a bit with the current squad this season to at least see if something sticks.

As you say though, he really can't keep this up if results continue to suffer for it.

I think thats exactly what he's doing at the moment too. He's throwing pieces against the wall, to see what might work, and will probably stick to it for a period if it does.

I do think though, when you don't play your back up left back in a game, and you end up playing a number 10 then a central midfielder at left back, and a central midfielder, your number 10 (who started left back) then another central midfielder at right back all in the same game- a game that you subsequently lose with the fullbacks looking rather confused, you do open yourself up to criticism.

 

[Death]

I think thats exactly what he's doing at the moment too. He's throwing pieces against the wall, to see what might work, and will probably stick to it for a period if it does.

I do think though, when you don't play your back up left back in a game, and you end up playing a number 10 then a central midfielder at left back, and a central midfielder, your number 10 (who started left back) then another central midfielder at right back all in the same game- a game that you subsequently lose with the fullbacks looking rather confused, you do open yourself up to criticism.

Yeap he definitely has lost a few points trying to be clever or different. Like picking 9 center mids against Newcastle was another one. I’d love a time machine and go with the teams picked with the general consensus on here does be for the last last several games. I bet we would be at least in the top four and a win away form 1rst

 

[Saint Domingo]

Scuritinising the numbers makes sense. Silva was around 1.3 ppg, Ancelotti is around 1.6 ppg. He's around 0.3 ppg better (so about 10-12 points a season). I think thats actually pretty good.

This is doubly so, as he came in mid season, didnt have a sumer to work with the team initially and had a team around 15th to take over.

The problem is, sides who are around 1.6 ppg tend to lose a lot of games. They will go on winning and losing runs in a season.

What is heartening for me is the reduction in the number of games we’ve drawn. We used to draw a lot of games and saw draws (and avoiding defeat in general) as some sort of positive result. Everyone knows that winning one then losing two gets you the same points as drawing three but people seem to be happier with not getting beaten twice. Whether it’s down to no crowds or not there seems to have been an improvement in our ability to win away from home which is also something we’ve been notoriously poor at. The league position needs to reflect it of course but if we can carry on with the form we’ve shown since Carlo has been here, and maybe even improve it slightly we’ll be in contention for the European places.

 

[Death]

What is heartening for me is the reduction in the number of games we’ve drawn. We used to draw a lot of games and saw draws (and avoiding defeat in general) as some sort of positive result. Everyone knows that winning one then losing two gets you the same points as drawing three but people seem to be happier with not getting beaten twice. Whether it’s down to no crowds or not there seems to have been an improvement in our ability to win away from home which is also something we’ve been notoriously poor at. The league position needs to reflect it of course but if we can carry on with the form we’ve shown since Carlo has been here, and maybe even improve it slightly we’ll be in contention for the European places.

Mate I get your reasoning and agree on it hypothetically being heartened but I don’t think we have been losing games this season because we have been going gun hoe for the win at the risk of losing. The stats might show less draws but I think we have lost many trying to be too safe.

If we were playing with that philosophy we would have a lot more points form the last 5/6 games than we have.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Mate I get your reasoning and agree on it hypothetically being heartened but I don’t think we have been losing games this season because we have been going gun hoe for the win at the risk of losing. The stats might show less draws but I think we have lost many trying to be too safe.

If we were playing with that philosophy we would have a lot more points form the last 5/6 games than we have.

It works both ways though, people can’t just focus on the losses and say ‘we didn’t go for wins’ there’s plenty of those wins that might have been draws under previous managers.

We could have easily sat back against Spurs and conceded a late one for a draw. Many previous managers would have been pleased with that. We didn’t. We kept going for the whole game until Sigurdsson came on and kept three points.

We fell behind twice against West Brom but even at 3-2 we kept pushing rather than sitting on the lead and inviting a late equaliser. Same as against Palace, we didn’t just contain at 1-1 and try and hold the point, we went for the win. We kept punishing Brighton also so that their late consolation goal was just that, a consolation.

Other Everton managers and Everton teams draw two or even three of our wins, and maybe also have two draws from the games we’ve lost. We’d have less points overall though, that’s my main point. We might have been beaten less, conceded less goals, not as bad run of recent form, but less points.

 

[catcherintherye]

What is heartening for me is the reduction in the number of games we’ve drawn. We used to draw a lot of games and saw draws (and avoiding defeat in general) as some sort of positive result. Everyone knows that winning one then losing two gets you the same points as drawing three but people seem to be happier with not getting beaten twice. Whether it’s down to no crowds or not there seems to have been an improvement in our ability to win away from home which is also something we’ve been notoriously poor at. The league position needs to reflect it of course but if we can carry on with the form we’ve shown since Carlo has been here, and maybe even improve it slightly we’ll be in contention for the European places.

Thats an interesting ange I hadn't thought of really. In fairness it seems there are less draws full stop currently, but in general when we are good we tend to win now. Whereas under Allardyce we just never really played well (but found ways to draw and occasionally win playing badly) under Silva we would play well to not win, and Koeman in his final spell we would play badly and get hammered.

The point is we will probably lose 15 games this season and if as you say we keep the winning stats going could still have a good year. Of the remainign 23 games we could win 18, draw 5 and that would mark a good season of 59 points (and probably being close to a top 6 finish).

I suppose thats where I am at with the team. There will be 15 games like Leeds where we lose, and rarely do we play well and lose. So I try not to become too burdened by it, because it is going to happen semi-regularly.

 

[Death]

It works both ways though, people can’t just focus on the losses and say ‘we didn’t go for wins’ there’s plenty of those wins that might have been draws under previous managers.

We could have easily sat back against Spurs and conceded a late one for a draw. Many previous managers would have been pleased with that. We didn’t. We kept going for the whole game until Sigurdsson came on and kept three points.

We fell behind twice against West Brom but even at 3-2 we kept pushing rather than sitting on the lead and inviting a late equaliser. Same as against Palace, we didn’t just contain at 1-1 and try and hold the point, we went for the win. We kept punishing Brighton also so that their late consolation goal was just that, a consolation.

Other Everton managers and Everton teams draw two or even three of our wins, and maybe also have two draws from the games we’ve lost. We’d have less points overall though, that’s my main point. We might have been beaten less, conceded less goals, not as bad run of recent form, but less points.

I was going to add that in. Yeah I completely agree on the first few games we went for it at risk. Cannot say that about the majority of our games now.

 

[GwladysBlue]

I really hope he just goes back to basics this weekend and plays players in their natural position.

If he played Nkoukou, Kenny, etc, i.e. the only natural players we have to play in them positions, no one could have any complaints.

This squad is just not good enough to be tinkered with.

 

[Crestfallen]

If Carlo Ancelotti, a hugely successful manager isn’t good enough for us, then who the hell is?

 

[Bluewolf]

Just read that Athletico Madrid have a debt of £895 million and need to cut costs.

Now If Carlo hasn't us in europe or a trophy win come the seasons end could we take advantage and attract Simeone away with the promise of funds to spend that he likely wont be getting at the Spanish club going forward?

One things for sure Diego would fit Everton and the Dogs of War like a glove.

Haha! Imagine that. Lashing ancelotti after 18 months, one of the most decorated managers ever, a genuine world class manager because he hasn't won us a trophy or got us Europe in his first full season at the club with the absolute dross he has to work with in the squad.

Then even expecting in any reality that any decent manager would even think twice about coming to this club. Why? Why would any decent manager come within a mile of this club? We're a absolute mess! The squad is terrible, the board are a absolute joke, the fact that kenwright hasn't been ran out of town is criminal let alone the fact he's still our chairman! Then if we were to sack ancelotti after 18 months, who in their right mind who could actually take us forward as a club would come near us?

Since martinez we haven't gave a manager two full seasons to even attempt to put their stamp on the club and we haven't been in Europe for 3 seasons and the last time we were in europe we got the record lowest points tally for any Premier league team in the europa league ever. We had to get allerdyce in a few seasons ago to stop us from getting relegated ffs! As far as I can tell the only reason any good manager would touch this club is if they either need a quick pay day or they just fancy destroying their reputation.

We are unbelievably lucky to have ancelotti at Everton we need to remember that, the stars aligned and we got lucky. It ain't happening again if ancelotti can't make something out of us then everyone needs to just admit that we are just going to be a mid table team that occasionally gets a europa league spot. Does that mean ancelotti is perfect? No. Does that mean he isn't going to make mistakes? No. Does it mean you can't be baffled by some of the decisions he makes? No. He's the best we can get though and he's our best shot at actually doing something at this club.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Haha! Imagine that. Lashing ancelotti after 18 months, one of the most decorated managers ever, a genuine world class manager because he hasn't won us a trophy or got us Europe in his first full season at the club with the absolute dross he has to work with in the squad.

Then even expecting in any reality that any decent manager would even think twice about coming to this club. Why? Why would any decent manager come within a mile of this club? We're a absolute mess! The squad is terrible, the board are a absolute joke, the fact that kenwright hasn't been ran out of town is criminal let alone the fact he's still our chairman! Then if we were to sack ancelotti after 18 months, who in their right mind who could actually take us forward as a club would come near us?

Since martinez we haven't gave a manager two full seasons to even attempt to put their stamp on the club and we haven't been in Europe for 3 seasons and the last time we were in europe we got the record lowest points tally for any Premier league team in the europa league ever. We had to get allerdyce in a few seasons ago to stop us from getting relegated ffs! As far as I can tell the only reason any good manager would touch this club is if they either need a quick pay day or they just fancy destroying their reputation.

We are unbelievably lucky to have ancelotti at Everton we need to remember that, the stars aligned and we got lucky. It ain't happening again if ancelotti can't make something out of us then everyone needs to just admit that we are just going to be a mid table team that occasionally gets a europa league spot. Does that mean ancelotti is perfect? No. Does that mean he isn't going to make mistakes? No. Does it mean you can't be baffled by some of the decisions he makes? No. He's the best we can get though and he's our best shot at actually doing something at this club.

Hmmmm.