Club Statement: Coronavirus

[Deleted member 38674]

The evidence is that
1) All of the leagues who operate on that schedule are the best watched, those on the alternate schedule are poorly watched.
2) The broadcasters have paid a fortune for a league that exists on that schedule, not leagues on a different schedule.
3) Nobody to my knowledge has ever issued a single complaint ever stating they wanted it moved to further improve the league.
4) The one proposed move, has been highly divisive, unpopular and people haven't liked it.

This is all evidence. I'm not sure what more you want? I'd also say, the old "if it aint broke don't fix it" rule works, so can we find any evidence to say moving the season would be a good thing?

It would be like me saying to you "show me the evidence that cancelling a season is a bad thing".

1,2 and 3 are all the absence of evidence.Only point 4 would amount to actual 'evidence' and it's an isolated incident and who knows if it will be unpopular - it may well be the most popular World Cup on record, we simply don't know. The main reason it has been divisive is because people didn't want to unnecessarily move the Football calendar to suit a corrupt World Cup, to be hosted mid-season. It's lots of change. Now, they don't have a choice, the calendar has to be moved because the World Cup is coming whether we like it or not. Also, the CV19 issue has exacerbated matters considerably and, providing it's long gone by then, may represent an opportunity to move the calendar 'organically', as we have a forced break.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it rule does work, you're absolutely right. But we're kind've forced into this situation aren't we? It is broke, so we have to fix it. You're also right that we can't find evidence that moving the season would be a good thing, that was never my argument.

My argument was always that it can't be definitively proved that moving the Aug-May Football calendar would produce any insurmountable objections or noteworthy, unsavoury results. I based that on other league seasons that participate in UEFA competitions and International transfer windows just fine (which were two of the core objections from people on here), and do not run Aug-May.

The reason those leagues aren't as popular as the PL is not their schedule, it's laughable to suggest it is. It's entirely due to the low average standard of Football in those leagues. And in any case, why would the authorities kow-tow to broadcasters who will pay whatever they demand, irrespective of when the season is shown. I'm basing that on the consumer demand globally for Football, which I estimate to be consistently high, year round, and also the number of broadcasters each year who fight for a slice of the Premier League games. If BT don't want to pay for the games, Sky gladly will. If neither will, then Premier Sports or some other subscription based channel will. It's ghost hunting, at best.

 

[ToffeeTim]

That's not my idea, nor my argument.

Why do the Euro's and the Copa America need to be over before the Olympics start?

Why is that fundamentally necessary and why do you believe broadcasters wouldn't forego that aspect of it?

Loads of sporting events run at the same time, Wimbledon, Tour De France and the World Cup are almost always on at the same time.

I'm not saying the Olympics will delay indefinitely, I'm saying the Olympics can start when they want, but if broadcasters are absolutely adamant that certain things need to be finished for them to start (which I can't see, personally) then they'll shift the Olympics back a few weeks, assuming they have that power.

What they definitely do not have the power to do is to void Football seasons 18 months prior to the Olympics, to ensure the Olympics runs on time.

They cant clash. That's what I'm saying. There needs to be at least a fortnight between one ending and one beginning.

This is not like Wimbledon clashing with the ashes or something. This is two competitions where the same players could be selected for their countries. Probably very few players would play in both but they can.

It's not a complicated concept. Football is not going to be rescheduled for the next 3 seasons to facilitate 9 games.

 

[number4.]

so you still want this one to NOT get voided tho?

Do I think it should be voided - No; I have gone to the effort to explain why, rather than just hurl abuse

Do I think it will be voided - Yes

 

[Deleted member 38674]

They cant clash. That's what I'm saying. There needs to be at least a fortnight between one ending and one beginning.

This is not like Wimbledon clashing with the ashes or something. This is two competitions where the same players could be selected for their countries. Probably very few players would play in both but they can.

It's not a complicated concept. Football is not going to be rescheduled for the next 3 seasons to facilitate 9 games.

Why can't they clash? The Olympics always throws up a club-vs-country row and it may well be that that can't be avoided in this case either.

1 or 2 seasons would've had to reschedule for the World Cup already though, even before this hit. This has just exacerbated the issue.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Why can't they clash? The Olympics always throws up a club-vs-country row and it may well be that that can't be avoided in this case either.

1 or 2 seasons would've had to reschedule for the World Cup already though, even before this hit. This has just exacerbated the issue.

Because the authorities won't allow it. It's not complicated. It's not a club v country argument. It would be a country v country argument.

Fifa wont allow two international football competitions to take place at the same time where the same country is in both.

Be a bit like England playing a one day international in the middle of a test match. It's a bonkers suggestion.

 

[bcblue1878]

They’ve already set the new dates for both the Euros and the Olympics and when announcing both, the contractual obligations to avoid any clash was clearly referenced. So it’s a done deal, finito.

They’re not going to move either again merely to facilitate the domestic football calendar, it’s not going to happen, so you’re living on cloud cuckoo if you seriously think that next season can run into the summer months. It simply can’t.

I actually think that the pair of them on here recycling the same arguments time after time would still have us playing what’s left of this season next summer, as long as it means they can say “we won the league”! They are that desperate!

 

[number4.]

They cant clash. That's what I'm saying. There needs to be at least a fortnight between one ending and one beginning.

This is not like Wimbledon clashing with the ashes or something. This is two competitions where the same players could be selected for their countries. Probably very few players would play in both but they can.

It's not a complicated concept. Football is not going to be rescheduled for the next 3 seasons to facilitate 9 games.

Whether ultimately voided are not, Football is now rescheduled for next season. It is not going to be a conventional Aug - May year whether we are still dealing with Covid 19 or not. Football is being rescheduled already

 

[Nymzee]

Whether ultimately voided are not, Football is now rescheduled for next season. It is not going to be a conventional Aug - May year whether we are still dealing with Covid 19 or not. Football is being rescheduled already

I can't find anything online where this is a guaranteed decision.

UEFA have suspended CL/EL but where have they agreed the PL won't be Aug-May?

 

[number4.]

I can't find anything online where this is a guaranteed decision.

UEFA have suspended CL/EL but where have they agreed the PL won't be Aug-May?

yesterday they agreed two things

1) a consensus to finish leagues across Europe if safe in July & August before the start of the new season
2) If it's not safe to play, they dont play.

So if they finish out, it's going to be by early August at best, then you will have a small between season break before start 20/21 probably early september. If they don't it is unsafe to play and you wont have football returning. Either way, as it stands right now, it looks highly unlikely that 20/21 will start pre Sept

that said - it could get to June, void then & safe to play by August and KO next season on time, but seems unlikely

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Why can't they clash? The Olympics always throws up a club-vs-country row and it may well be that that can't be avoided in this case either.

1 or 2 seasons would've had to reschedule for the World Cup already though, even before this hit. This has just exacerbated the issue.

The Euros and Olympics can’t clash due to the contractual conditions of the TV companies and sponsors.

The new dates for both events have now been set accordingly.

They’re not changing again merely to accommodate the current truncated season. So you need to come up with some other barmy suggestion that doesn’t include domestic football being played during next summer.

 

[catcherintherye]

1,2 and 3 are all the absence of evidence.Only point 4 would amount to actual 'evidence' and it's an isolated incident and who knows if it will be unpopular - it may well be the most popular World Cup on record, we simply don't know. The main reason it has been divisive is because people didn't want to unnecessarily move the Football calendar to suit a corrupt World Cup, to be hosted mid-season. It's lots of change. Now, they don't have a choice, the calendar has to be moved because the World Cup is coming whether we like it or not. Also, the CV19 issue has exacerbated matters considerably and, providing it's long gone by then, may represent an opportunity to move the calendar 'organically', as we have a forced break.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it rule does work, you're absolutely right. But we're kind've forced into this situation aren't we? It is broke, so we have to fix it. You're also right that we can't find evidence that moving the season would be a good thing, that was never my argument.

My argument was always that it can't be definitively proved that moving the Aug-May Football calendar would produce any insurmountable objections or noteworthy, unsavoury results. I based that on other league seasons that participate in UEFA competitions and International transfer windows just fine (which were two of the core objections from people on here), and do not run Aug-May.

The reason those leagues aren't as popular as the PL is not their schedule, it's laughable to suggest it is. It's entirely due to the low average standard of Football in those leagues. And in any case, why would the authorities kow-tow to broadcasters who will pay whatever they demand, irrespective of when the season is shown. I'm basing that on the consumer demand globally for Football, which I estimate to be consistently high, year round, and also the number of broadcasters each year who fight for a slice of the Premier League games. If BT don't want to pay for the games, Sky gladly will. If neither will, then Premier Sports or some other subscription based channel will. It's ghost hunting, at best.

Well they are evidence. It's not an absence of evidence Sky have paid record fees for a season that begins in August and ends in May. The absence of evidence is to suggest that if you moved it, they would be happy to pay the same figures. They might do, but there's no evidence for it, it's a theory.

I don't think the sole reason, or even the main reason for the leagues that have the best commercial revenues operating to the schedule we have is because of said schedule, but it's clearly a factor. It's not just that they are much much bigger, but they continue to grow larger as well. It's not that even the Swedish league has been closing the gap.

As for broadcasters, all my point is, is if they are going to kick up a fuss about having to cancel a season due to an uncontrolled event, they are also likely to kick up a fuss about not being able to televise the games when they should do. If you have any experience of managing contracts, you will know that as soon as you veer off the contract you are in potential trouble. If my company provides an identical service, on a different day to the one we agreed, I anticipate some customers will complain.

As a final point, I do think you under estimate the global nature of the game. For most fans in England, sure the die hards keep going. The reality is, for TV exposure though, in markets such as America, where football is very much not the primary sport but has done very well to work its way up, changing the schedule is at the very least a very big risk. Nobody is voluntarily suggesting to do this, because we all know it's a bad idea.

As you rightly say though, we have a a hobson choice here. There are 2 bad options. We agree on that. What the point is, is you can't start trying to make out one option is actually not a bad option. I have given you multiple examples now (maybe as many as 10 different things) as to why changing the season dates wouldn't work. I've yet to see a single shred of evidence you have presented that states disrupting multiple seasons would be of benefit. If your view is, it's not damaging and a positive, show some evidence for that. Show me a football league that operates to the schedule you are proposing that performs in any way comparatively to the current PL. It doesn't exist.

And I mean, damaging seasons is really the tip of the ice berg in terms of problems. For that reason, the lesser evil is very much to cancel and void if it can't be completed.

 

[catcherintherye]

yesterday they agreed two things

1) a consensus to finish leagues across Europe if safe in July & August before the start of the new season
2) If it's not safe to play, they dont play.

So if they finish out, it's going to be by early August at best, then you will have a small between season break before start 20/21 probably early september. If they don't it is unsafe to play and you wont have football returning. Either way, as it stands right now, it looks highly unlikely that 20/21 will start pre Sept

that said - it could get to June, void then & safe to play by August and KO next season on time, but seems unlikely

They hardly mentioned August. They said it has to be completed by August 3rd. That means in all likelihood we have to start playing again in early June, and be fit to start training again really in early May.

And thats assuming people go for the August 3rd deadline. They may just tick to theJune 30th deadline, in which case the season is now probably done.

As a slight aside, the season needs to finish my late May. You will not complete the season by that point unless you start in August. So any solution that involves starting from September the new season will effectively mean we have to miss games out, and are in breach of contract to TV companies (probably in a more serious way).

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

yesterday they agreed two things

1) a consensus to finish leagues across Europe if safe in July & August before the start of the new season
2) If it's not safe to play, they dont play.

So if they finish out, it's going to be by early August at best, then you will have a small between season break before start 20/21 probably early september. If they don't it is unsafe to play and you wont have football returning. Either way, as it stands right now, it looks highly unlikely that 20/21 will start pre Sept

that said - it could get to June, void then & safe to play by August and KO next season on time, but seems unlikely

The date leaked by the Dutch FA yesterday was August 3rd was the cut off date for the current season. They altered the wording on their site after it was reported on, no doubt after being kicked by UEFA.

In order to complete all of the outstanding fixtures by that date, then mid June was suggested as being the latest point that it would be possible to restart. That ignores all of the potential issues around the transfer window, sponsorship deals and players contracts btw, but they were patently discussing the possibilities.

So it’s pretty clear that if football is deemed to be safe to restart by mid June, then assuming all other issues are resolved, then the season will likely be finished. However as mid June looms and it’s still far from safe to be playing, then at that point they’ll void it.

There’s little else to add, the fantasy scenarios about playing out the ‘current’ season 6 months plus down the road and to the detriment of all other events, just because.....should be left to the likes of Aldo.

 

[catcherintherye]

Because the authorities won't allow it. It's not complicated. It's not a club v country argument. It would be a country v country argument.

Fifa wont allow two international football competitions to take place at the same time where the same country is in both.

Be a bit like England playing a one day international in the middle of a test match. It's a bonkers suggestion.

You are touching upon another good point here. We are talking about facilitating multi-agency arguments which will end up in the courts. All to continue a season 5 months after it was cancelled. It's bonkers. The consequence of having a circus this summer are really not in any way worth the price quoted. If I was on the board of a PL team, I'm voting to cancel now, even if we lose out from it, just to avoid the enormous problems that will result from restarting a season part way through several months later.

 

[catcherintherye]

The date leaked by the Dutch FA yesterday was August 3rd was the cut off date for the current season. They altered the wording on their site after it was reported on, no doubt after being kicked by UEFA.

In order to complete all of the outstanding fixtures by that date, then mid June was suggested as being the latest point that it would be possible to restart. That ignores all of the potential issues around the transfer window, sponsorship deals and players contracts btw, but they were patently discussing the possibilities.

So it’s pretty clear that if football is deemed to be safe to restart by mid June, then assuming all other issues are resolved, then the season will likely be finished. However as mid June looms and it’s still far from safe to be playing, then at that point they’ll void it.

There’s little else to add, the fantasy scenarios about playing out the ‘current’ season 6 months plus down the road and to the detriment of all other events, just because.....should be left to the likes of Aldo.

Yes I mean I haven't heard how anyone is sorting contracts out for this. And you'd need to start early June to fit all the games in. If EL/CL games are to go ahead then you'd need to probably re-start mid-late May,