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Dyche; A Great Achievement?

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Eggs said:
Great Everton Managers are judged on the trophy’s they win, I’ve had the great pleasure to have watched the Catterick and Kendall years but I got a bit of stick after suggesting that if Dyche keeps us up it should genuinely be considered one of the great Everton managerial achievements.

Players and staff don’t live in a vacuum, the off-field issues have to manifest themselves on the pitch;

- avoided relegation in the last day of the season but despite an obvious lack of quality in the squad a great improvement saw us moving along nicely until the first points deduction kicked in.
- players playing with freedom become uptight, the crowd becomes nervous. 8 points deducted but the reality is its cost us more than that. Rooney was saying in the week how impossible it is to manage a club with points deducted.
- shambles off the pitch, an absent owner, the conflict with the Board. The chairman passes away, the Board sacked and transitioned to new personnel. No money for January transfers.
- lack of quality in key positions, no goalscorer yet he found a way to accumulate points. He’s coped with injuries and still kept us competitive.
- through all the issues he’s protected the players and I never thought for one minute he’d ‘lost the dressing room’.
- we all have our selection issues but he’s uncomplicated and pragmatic. Defensively outstanding, players not found wanting for effort.

I believe keeping us up this season is one of the great managerial achievements in my 60+ years watching. Dyche is unpopular on here but I didn’t mind watching his team earlier in the season, defended well but got players forward and created chances. When the going got tough he’s done what he needed to get us over the line.

We’re safe, we can have the discussion on how well Dyche did.
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Good post Eggs, you put your head above the parapet there and look at the reaction.
What Dyche did last season was remarkable enough but with all the negativity surrounding the club at every turn this season and our points deductions this season has topped it.
We can get into arguments reference his stubborness etc. but he's got the job done with games to spare and we would be mid table any other season even with all our woes.
A lot to thank him for here.
 
Captain Bligh said:
That 14 game run was a tough iternary at a time of utter chaos behind the scenes. I think Dyche has done a superb job. He’s not as outwardly loveable as other managers but he has my respect
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Think it was only a 13 game run in the league, and 8 of those games were against teams in the top 8. City home, City away, Spurs home, Spurs away, United, Villa, Newcastle, West Ham.

The Wolves result is the only one that stands out as a real stinker.

It also came off the back of a run of 4 wins in a row at the start of December, including wins against Chelsea and Newcastle.

It's been a weird season but the only thing that mattered was avoiding relegation and we've done that, comfortably, despite having an 8 ppt deficit and a ton of turbulence in the background. We would be 19 points clear of the relegation zone if it wasn't for the points deduction. Given the context of this season, and that this is a pretty poor squad, that's really impressive.
 
LeeCarsley said:
Were it not for our points deductions we'd be sitting pretty on 44 points. If 8th gets Conference League we'd have an outside shot of that too, one season after surviving on the final day, and spending very little money whilst selling multiple first team players, under the backdrop of the most complicated ownership struggle ever. He's not a miracle worker, he's a meticulous, often maligned and misunderstood gaffer who is as talented as any of the flavour of the week names they trot out every season as the next Pep. We're very lucky he's here. Onto next season with the gaffer, I'm very optimistic.
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I firmly believe that without the points deduction that awful winless run wouldn't have happened. So we'd have even more points.

It's a terrible feeling when you have no control over events and the off field issues obviously affected the players.

Tremendous achievement.
 

thirdmantackle said:
Put any manager in the league in charge with that squad? Lack of spending in January, off field shenanigans, points deductions

Don't think any of them would have done any better
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I disagree with this argument. Look at villa under Gerrard/emery. Pretty much the same squad, but one of them nearly got relegated and the other has finished 4th.

Dyche has done well when it mattered in a tricky season, but let's not start normalising survival as a good season.
 
RomanReigns said:
I’ve banged the drum before but what he did last season to save us from relegation was actually a miracle

This season even with the points deduction was a breeze because of how poor Burnley, Sheffield United and Luton have been
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You can even extend that to Forest, Brentford & Palace (pre-Glasner & with their injuries) who've all looked really bang average for most of the season themselves.
 

Eggs said:
Great Everton Managers are judged on the trophy’s they win, I’ve had the great pleasure to have watched the Catterick and Kendall years but I got a bit of stick after suggesting that if Dyche keeps us up it should genuinely be considered one of the great Everton managerial achievements.

Players and staff don’t live in a vacuum, the off-field issues have to manifest themselves on the pitch;

- avoided relegation in the last day of the season but despite an obvious lack of quality in the squad a great improvement saw us moving along nicely until the first points deduction kicked in.
- players playing with freedom become uptight, the crowd becomes nervous. 8 points deducted but the reality is its cost us more than that. Rooney was saying in the week how impossible it is to manage a club with points deducted.
- shambles off the pitch, an absent owner, the conflict with the Board. The chairman passes away, the Board sacked and transitioned to new personnel. No money for January transfers.
- lack of quality in key positions, no goalscorer yet he found a way to accumulate points. He’s coped with injuries and still kept us competitive.
- through all the issues he’s protected the players and I never thought for one minute he’d ‘lost the dressing room’.
- we all have our selection issues but he’s uncomplicated and pragmatic. Defensively outstanding, players not found wanting for effort.

I believe keeping us up this season is one of the great managerial achievements in my 60+ years watching. Dyche is unpopular on here but I didn’t mind watching his team earlier in the season, defended well but got players forward and created chances. When the going got tough he’s done what he needed to get us over the line.

We’re safe, we can have the discussion on how well Dyche did.
Click to expand...
Posted one of the other Dyche threads also.

If we had not had the points deduction hanging over us he would have been sacked during what is the longest winless run in the history of the Premier league.

Without that horrendous run, the points deduction wouldn't have been the issue it turned out to be.

That's all on Dyche.

You can let beating the RS put rose tinted glasses on the situation but we faced this horrendous mess because of two things.

Poor leadership, and;

Poor management of the team
 
Carlito said:
Yeah, it's hard to say he hasn't done well overall.

If he'd done this at another club and I hadn't felt obliged to actually suffer through watching the games, I'd probably think he should be Manager of the Year.
Click to expand...

Is a great point. I think we're guilty of doing an autopsy on everything. outside views i have seen or read is the club were given two points deductions in one season and still survived quite comfortably. What a good job he's done in those circumstances.
I'm prepared to leave it at that for now.
 
Hinchcliffe's Corner said:
Do you think Dyche would have won the cup with the 95 squad?
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Well I think the 1995 squad was much better than the present one so Dyche would have had a good chance of achieving that aim. After winning the cup Joe struggled the season after and was relieved of his job with a few games to go and it was player manager Dave Watson who secured the points that kept us up.
Spadge Vernacular said:
Posted one of the other Dyche threads also.

If we had not had the points deduction hanging over us he would have been sacked during what is the longest winless run in the history of the Premier league.

Without that horrendous run, the points deduction wouldn't have been the issue it turned out to be.

That's all on Dyche.

You can let beating the RS put rose tinted glasses on the situation but we faced this horrendous mess because of two things.

Poor leadership, and;

Poor management of the team
Click to expand...
Never mind rose tinted glasses over the Derby win your black and white argument doesn’t allow any grey areas, and there were plenty: A threadbare squad limited in quality made worse by injuries, no money for reinforcements, nobody looking after the affairs off the pitch, a small central midfield, only one genuine striker, often injured, ageing full backs and the injustice of two point deductions which must have affected the whole footballing side, Dyche overcame all this and could still possibly earn us fifty points over the season, did anyone think we could have done that with this squad?0
 

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