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Homepage Article Ellis Simms Joins Blackpool

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MikeH72 said:
I think there’s a difference between thinking a player should be given a chance rather than persist with known wasters, and declaring him our lord and saviour Jesus Christ 2.0.
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There's a difference between a hugely experienced manager who sees how those players compare in training every day and us. And once again, we're saying a kid who has not even made his senior debut by the time he's 20 should be "given a chance" before a guy with well over 100 top flight goals and 18 international goals. Tosun may well be "crap", but he's a heck of a lot better than Simms. By the time Tosun was Simms age he'd got over 20 goals in the Turkish top flight, but some kid who can only get a gig with Blackpool is better than him :hayee:
 
Bruce Wayne said:
And yet, the fact remains that in the last 2 years Tosun has scored 7 goals in 10 games for Turkey, so is quite possibly a bit ahead of a young kid who is going to be playing in the bottom half of the 2nd tier of English football (if he can get a game).

Hopefully he takes the chance and pushes on, but Ancelotti will be dealing with what is right now rather than some fantasy land vision some fans have.
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I'm not agreeing with them one way or the other. And tbh what he does with Turkey is largely irrelevant, it's what he does on the pitch for us that matters.
Bruce Wayne said:
It's like Sancho and Dowell.
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How is it like that? No-one is comparing them, and they're not even that comparable. For a start Sancho came from Watford only a few years before he left City.
Bruce Wayne said:
I'm not suggesting the senior pros are the bee's knees, just we have a massively over-inflated opinion of our youngsters. Gordon is another, as we have fans thinking he's automatically ahead of Bernard in the queue, despite one having played in a World Cup semi-final and the other being not fit enough to last a top flight game. It's bonkers.
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Again, don't care about a semi final for Brazil years ago, what matters is performances for us.
Bruce Wayne said:
Don't get me wrong, it would be great if we could replicate something like what Dortmund have got, but we're in a position whereby fans are suggesting 20 year old kids who have done absolutely nothing should push out international players just because they're Academy players. Sancho and Haaland are both the same age as Simms. Reyna, Bellingham, and Reinier are all a few years younger, and all have achieved way more than Simms, yet he's supposedly the savior of our attack. Bonkers.
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See this is the problem. You're completely mis-representing people's words and posts, so how are you supposed to form a sensible argument against people when you're not even arguing against what they're actually saying, as opposed to what your seem to have got in your head.
Bruce Wayne said:
He's being seen every day in training by one of the most decorated managers of the last 20 years. I kinda suspect if he thought he'd improve the team then he'd be a regular. But he's got to dislodge either James or Richarlison when they're both fit, or the aforementioned WC semi-finalist or a guy we spent £40 million on.
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No-one wants him to dislodge James or Richarlison tho. Again, pretty much no one has said that.
MikeH72 said:
I think there’s a difference between thinking a player should be given a chance rather than persist with known wasters, and declaring him our lord and saviour Jesus Christ 2.0.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
Philw said:
I'm not agreeing with them one way or the other. And tbh what he does with Turkey is largely irrelevant, it's what he does on the pitch for us that matters.

How is it like that? No-one is comparing them, and they're not even that comparable. For a start Sancho came from Watford only a few years before he left City.

Again, don't care about a semi final for Brazil years ago, what matters is performances for us.

See this is the problem. You're completely mis-representing people's words and posts, so how are you supposed to form a sensible argument against people when you're not even arguing against what they're actually saying, as opposed to what your seem to have got in your head.

No-one wants him to dislodge James or Richarlison tho. Again, pretty much no one has said that.

Exactly.
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Why should a player be "given a chance"? I would think the manager would be basing his decisions on performances both in training and in previous matches. For a young player, like Simms or Gordon, they can only really hope to impress in training because youth team games are no comparison to the senior football that their rivals for a spot have got in their locker. Given that their senior rivals have shown they can perform to a reasonable level in senior football (and the youngsters haven't), then they will have to really tear it up in training. If they're not "given a chance" then we can probably assume they're not doing that.
 
Raino85 said:
Bruce has a point here!

The crying for lads to get into a first team (no matter how crap we can think they are at times) which consists of full internationals and elite level footballers is mad.

The best use for our acadamy at the moment should be a way of making profit through player sales, which would mean for example loaning Simms out as early as possible (18ish) hoping he does well and then after 2-3 years of loans to sell him for a good fee with a nice sell on %. If a player comes through that makes the first team than that is a bonus.

Look at all the top teams, one player at most every 4/5 years.... United had Rashford & now McTominey, Liverpool had Trent & now maybe Jones, City with Foden, the 2 sides that have put a few players in (Arsenal & Chelsea) are underperforming).
All the lads mentioned, including the Arsenal & Chelsea kids are better than anything we have produced since Barkley
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But most clubs do not want to take 18 year old Everton reserves on loan. Thats the difficulty.
 

catcherintherye said:
But most clubs do not want to take 18 year old Everton reserves on loan. Thats the difficulty.
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It's a different level isn't it? Moise Keen is the same age as Simms and has nearly 100 top flight games under his belt and 27 goals, not to mention 8 Italian caps. He's being deemed not good enough for us and yet Simms seemingly is? It's bonkers logic. We're apparently interested in this kid from Bayern, who is a year younger than Simms, and you presume is being targeted with the first team in mind, not a loan to a bog average Championship side.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
By the time Tosun was Simms age he'd got over 20 goals in the Turkish top flight,
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Didn't even go to Turkey until he was 19 and a half, and only scored 12 in his first season there, and twelve more the next. Simms turned twenty about 2 weeks ago.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It's a different level isn't it? Moise Keen is the same age as Simms and has nearly 100 top flight games under his belt and 27 goals, not to mention 8 Italian caps. He's being deemed not good enough for us and yet Simms seemingly is? It's bonkers logic. We're apparently interested in this kid from Bayern, who is a year younger than Simms, and you presume is being targeted with the first team in mind, not a loan to a bog average Championship side.
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I have a bit of an issue with the whole concept of just loaning people out. I think it's become the default answer that explains away quite a complex and harsher reality. That is that 90% of our young players will have no chance of playing for the Everton 1st team, whoever is in charge. Even the very best clubs, bring through about 1 per season, out of a squad of probabaly 10-12 lads.

Who is taking Ellis Simms, who has probably not kicked a bal in reserve football, on loan at 18? Best case scenario maybe a conference team wpuld give him some game time. If you don't believe me, go and have a look at a youth team from 5 years ago and go and see where most of them play. At least 1/2 won't be at conference level.

They see things like us too. You only take someone on loan who
a) You have a realistic chance of keeping or
b) Who is much better than what you already have

Most of the time it is not A. So is he miles better? Maybe. However when most PL's sides under 23's play in that Johnstone trophy thing, they tend to win as many as they lose. Thats about the level.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
There's a difference between a hugely experienced manager who sees how those players compare in training every day and us. And once again, we're saying a kid who has not even made his senior debut by the time he's 20 should be "given a chance" before a guy with well over 100 top flight goals and 18 international goals. Tosun may well be "crap", but he's a heck of a lot better than Simms. By the time Tosun was Simms age he'd got over 20 goals in the Turkish top flight, but some kid who can only get a gig with Blackpool is better than him :hayee:
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Stick to the political thread Bruce ........your grasp of youth football is about the same .......
 

Bruce Wayne said:
There's a difference between a hugely experienced manager who sees how those players compare in training every day and us. And once again, we're saying a kid who has not even made his senior debut by the time he's 20 should be "given a chance" before a guy with well over 100 top flight goals and 18 international goals. Tosun may well be "crap", but he's a heck of a lot better than Simms. By the time Tosun was Simms age he'd got over 20 goals in the Turkish top flight, but some kid who can only get a gig with Blackpool is better than him :hayee:
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I mean this is outright false information, but ok.
 
catcherintherye said:
But most clubs do not want to take 18 year old Everton reserves on loan. Thats the difficulty.
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That is true in a sence, but look at der reds sending rhys williams down to kidderminster? OR DCL went to play at stalybridge at 17 and then Northampton at 18.

Im sure the likes of Wrexham, Chester, Stockport even the likes of Tranmere & Salford would take an 18/19 year old on loan if we offered. With it being local sides we could even factor in training with us once a week.

The likes of Kyle John & Ryan Astley who were rated 2 years ago when they were 16/17 should of had a year at under 23s then offered to these teams ASAP
 

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