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England v Brazil
- Thread starter SuitsBlue
- Start date
- Status
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
Ok, another arse up by McClaren, but then we all know he hasn't a [Poor language removed] clue.
Robinson - Did well, one good save, and one mistake.
Shorey - Ok, but not comfortable with him there.
Terry - Quality as always
King - Shaky,
Carragher - Solid
Cole - Too tricky, needs to do more simple stuff
Lampard - If this fella suffered a serious knee injury I wouldn't lose any sleep, [Poor language removed] and ineffective, unless your rating him on his 5 yard pass backs to Gerrard, then we was world class at them.
Gerrard - Excellent
Beckham - Biggest threat, quality free kick, great crosses, some good passing, tackled back. Superb for the goal
Owen - Good running, need him back to full fitness to really be the threat he used to be.
Subs - Why take off Beckham? and why take him off for a player who is largely [Poor language removed] for England and doesn't play on the right side of midfield. Especially when Lampard was still on the pitch doing his usual [Poor language removed] all and wank passing. Or why not bring on Bentley instead of Jenas? We all know Jenas can do [Poor language removed] all for England.
I think McClaren did it to prove to everyone that he's still the man in charge even though the media have forced him to uturn on Beckham. The snub that Beckham gave McClaren at the end of the game spoke volumes for me.
So why can't this [Poor language removed] of a manager [Poor language removed] off and [Poor language removed] off now, if he can't see that the best crosser of the ball is Beckham.
I think the players are going to be devestated and rightly so. Imagine the confidence if we had gone on to win comfortably.
Robinson - Did well, one good save, and one mistake.
Shorey - Ok, but not comfortable with him there.
Terry - Quality as always
King - Shaky,
Carragher - Solid
Cole - Too tricky, needs to do more simple stuff
Lampard - If this fella suffered a serious knee injury I wouldn't lose any sleep, [Poor language removed] and ineffective, unless your rating him on his 5 yard pass backs to Gerrard, then we was world class at them.
Gerrard - Excellent
Beckham - Biggest threat, quality free kick, great crosses, some good passing, tackled back. Superb for the goal
Owen - Good running, need him back to full fitness to really be the threat he used to be.
Subs - Why take off Beckham? and why take him off for a player who is largely [Poor language removed] for England and doesn't play on the right side of midfield. Especially when Lampard was still on the pitch doing his usual [Poor language removed] all and wank passing. Or why not bring on Bentley instead of Jenas? We all know Jenas can do [Poor language removed] all for England.
I think McClaren did it to prove to everyone that he's still the man in charge even though the media have forced him to uturn on Beckham. The snub that Beckham gave McClaren at the end of the game spoke volumes for me.
So why can't this [Poor language removed] of a manager [Poor language removed] off and [Poor language removed] off now, if he can't see that the best crosser of the ball is Beckham.
I think the players are going to be devestated and rightly so. Imagine the confidence if we had gone on to win comfortably.
SuitsBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
didnt deserve too, footballing lesson by brazil, a side that didnt get out of second gear, simply toyed with england and should have been a goal up for gilbertos header, and should have had a penalty in the first half also.
its a friendly, the players are relaxing after a long season, heard it all before!
simply not good enough.
its a friendly, the players are relaxing after a long season, heard it all before!
simply not good enough.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
I thought we played well 2nd half up till we made the subs. It is Brazil who are quality, and we did well to a point.
Who cares about the national side. Theyre gash.
Lets talk about Big Brother instead.
Lets talk about Big Brother instead.
SuitsBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
If they had played with any urgency and like the match had mattered, we would have been utterly trounced.
far too many times it was last ditch tackles that rescued england (terry and gerrard) and although saint becks did a couple of things right, he did an equal if not greater number wrong. how many corners didnt beat the first man?
if thats the best dead ball specialist we have, lets call it a day and focus on snooker - oh [Poor language removed], its the scots thats best at that...erm.... tennis.....
far too many times it was last ditch tackles that rescued england (terry and gerrard) and although saint becks did a couple of things right, he did an equal if not greater number wrong. how many corners didnt beat the first man?
if thats the best dead ball specialist we have, lets call it a day and focus on snooker - oh [Poor language removed], its the scots thats best at that...erm.... tennis.....
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
Let's not start this again, I am an Evertonian in England, but with the rest of the world I am English and I am proud of it.
So I do care about the English side, and I don't want to talk about a load of slags arsing about a stupid house on a program that surely must be coming to the end of its life.
So I do care about the English side, and I don't want to talk about a load of slags arsing about a stupid house on a program that surely must be coming to the end of its life.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
bollocks, every word!
SuitsBlue
Player Valuation: £50m
You see more muff on Big Brother.
It has my vote.
It has my vote.
As Suits said, Brazil didn't get out of second gear and still gave us a lesson in passing, and more particularly movement. Time after time we were forced to pass backwards because no one was free in attack. Often when the ball was played forward the recipitent had to take a few touches to wait for support and by that time the ball was lost. Contrast that to Brazil (and the likes of Arsenal and Barca) who played one touch football, nice short passing and exceptional movement.
As usual we looked solid enough defensively but in attack we offered nothing. The patient passing game ala Arsenal isn't open to us because we simply aren't good enough. The fast wingplay game isn't either unfortunately because Beckham didn't have a full back to create space for him to cross and was therefore kept deep and out of harms way. Cole on the other flank had reasonable support from Shorey but cut inside all the time. To play that game you need an exceptional striker to play off of, like a Drogba or Eto'o. For all his talents, Owen simply isn't that man and Smith isn't good enough.
All of which sums up the England team really. Individually they are reasonable enough but collectively they are poor because their individual strengths don't really allow the team to play in a defined manner. Clubs sides have the ability to create a team philosophy and pick players to fill that philosophy. England still seem to lack any kind of philosophy and seem to be blundering around hoping that one day picking the best 11 individuals will somehow forge a cohesive team.
As usual we looked solid enough defensively but in attack we offered nothing. The patient passing game ala Arsenal isn't open to us because we simply aren't good enough. The fast wingplay game isn't either unfortunately because Beckham didn't have a full back to create space for him to cross and was therefore kept deep and out of harms way. Cole on the other flank had reasonable support from Shorey but cut inside all the time. To play that game you need an exceptional striker to play off of, like a Drogba or Eto'o. For all his talents, Owen simply isn't that man and Smith isn't good enough.
All of which sums up the England team really. Individually they are reasonable enough but collectively they are poor because their individual strengths don't really allow the team to play in a defined manner. Clubs sides have the ability to create a team philosophy and pick players to fill that philosophy. England still seem to lack any kind of philosophy and seem to be blundering around hoping that one day picking the best 11 individuals will somehow forge a cohesive team.
GhostOfDixie
Player Valuation: £70m
Well some fair points, but I would say that the manager is ultimately responsible for the way a side performs on the pitch. If you play players out of position which we have done tonight:
Joe Cole, can't use his left foot
Carragher, is a centre back and a better one than King
Lampard can't play for England, never mind with Gerrard
Gerrard was too deep, because of Lampard
Smith hasn't played striker for Man U often enough, he always plays in midfield
Dyer isn't a striker
Jenas isn't a right sided midfielder
So, with that in mind who could we have picked? Was Phil Neville on the bench? Doesn't he play right back from time to time? Surely Lescott had a better season then Shorey. Oh well.
Why not play Carrick from the start or Owen Hargreaves instead of Lampard and leave Gerrard free to support the strikers. Why not play Nugent instead of Smith, because he's more of a natural striker, why not play Defoe? Bent?
This English side has potential, its just about getting the right blend, something that Sven couldn't do and neither it seems can McClaren.
Joe Cole, can't use his left foot
Carragher, is a centre back and a better one than King
Lampard can't play for England, never mind with Gerrard
Gerrard was too deep, because of Lampard
Smith hasn't played striker for Man U often enough, he always plays in midfield
Dyer isn't a striker
Jenas isn't a right sided midfielder
So, with that in mind who could we have picked? Was Phil Neville on the bench? Doesn't he play right back from time to time? Surely Lescott had a better season then Shorey. Oh well.
Why not play Carrick from the start or Owen Hargreaves instead of Lampard and leave Gerrard free to support the strikers. Why not play Nugent instead of Smith, because he's more of a natural striker, why not play Defoe? Bent?
This English side has potential, its just about getting the right blend, something that Sven couldn't do and neither it seems can McClaren.
That was kind of my point. If you look at the best club sides they all have a way of playing and fit players into their teams with that in mind. Barcelona and Arsenal play the short passing game. Man Utd play a fast, counter attacking style with excellent wingers. Chelsea and Liverpool are defensively minded and physical.
England simply don't have a style and as a result are forced to pick the best 11 players in the hope that one materialises. For instance there's nothing wrong with Joe Cole being right footed on the left, Ronaldinho does it very well, but as he's largely going to be cutting inside he needs a strong striker to play off of. Owen simply isn't that man, his strengths are getting in behind the defense.
On the other flank you have Beckham who's strength is crossing. He often needs an attacking full-back to overlap, thus creating space for him to cross because he's not quick or tricky enough to create his own. With Neville behind him this is an option, with Carragher it certainly isn't. It also has to be questioned whether putting crosses into Owen is the best use of his talents. At the moment, Beckham only really looks effective from set pieces when he has some proper arial threats to aim at.
In the centre of midfield, both Gerrard and Lampard excel for their clubs when they can play off of a big front man and can gamble on pushing forward safe in the knowledge that a Mascherano or Makalele are sitting behind them. Neither the big front man or defensive midfielder were present today. If Rooney plays that further complicates things. It's no coincidence that neither Liverpool or Chelsea play with a player 'in the hole' and that's because he would get in the way of Gerrard/Lampard.
You would have to say that if you were building a club side then none of the England teams from the last decade would be your preferred eleven because we constantly fall for the trap of picking the best eleven individuals and then trying to forge a system for them to play. It shows up in the regularly disjointed performances from the team. It's incredibly rare for England to blow a side away, so many results are niggly and the old 'it's the result that matters, we'll improve the performance when it counts' excuse is rolled out. It simply doesn't work that way. If you look at the England rugby team, in the year/18 months prior to the World Cup we had a style that bordered on 'total rugby' and blew everyone away to such an extent that the WC win was such a formality for the players because they knew the system worked. Until England devise a philosophy for how we should play we'll never get anywhere.
England simply don't have a style and as a result are forced to pick the best 11 players in the hope that one materialises. For instance there's nothing wrong with Joe Cole being right footed on the left, Ronaldinho does it very well, but as he's largely going to be cutting inside he needs a strong striker to play off of. Owen simply isn't that man, his strengths are getting in behind the defense.
On the other flank you have Beckham who's strength is crossing. He often needs an attacking full-back to overlap, thus creating space for him to cross because he's not quick or tricky enough to create his own. With Neville behind him this is an option, with Carragher it certainly isn't. It also has to be questioned whether putting crosses into Owen is the best use of his talents. At the moment, Beckham only really looks effective from set pieces when he has some proper arial threats to aim at.
In the centre of midfield, both Gerrard and Lampard excel for their clubs when they can play off of a big front man and can gamble on pushing forward safe in the knowledge that a Mascherano or Makalele are sitting behind them. Neither the big front man or defensive midfielder were present today. If Rooney plays that further complicates things. It's no coincidence that neither Liverpool or Chelsea play with a player 'in the hole' and that's because he would get in the way of Gerrard/Lampard.
You would have to say that if you were building a club side then none of the England teams from the last decade would be your preferred eleven because we constantly fall for the trap of picking the best eleven individuals and then trying to forge a system for them to play. It shows up in the regularly disjointed performances from the team. It's incredibly rare for England to blow a side away, so many results are niggly and the old 'it's the result that matters, we'll improve the performance when it counts' excuse is rolled out. It simply doesn't work that way. If you look at the England rugby team, in the year/18 months prior to the World Cup we had a style that bordered on 'total rugby' and blew everyone away to such an extent that the WC win was such a formality for the players because they knew the system worked. Until England devise a philosophy for how we should play we'll never get anywhere.
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