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Everton Head Office

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redeye said:
Maybe you have led a sheltered life and not experienced too much about the human race.
There are some bad people out there.
I have lived in South Africa, Brazil, Saudi Arabia to name but a few countries so for you to generalize
It is wrong in my opinion.
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I find you quite tiresome, it is this point I bid you goodbye and hope your forum exit is fast approaching.
 

NathDogg said:
Thanks for the head pat.

Have you read anything I typed - do you have any input on anything that has happened or I have said?

You are all part of the problem sadly, and you still don't even recognise it.

The main thing that finished any notion of decent reds today, was the downright lies and deflection employed by them to try and cover up what had gone on.

Stray rockets = aimed at building, only a few idiots = 300 rioting and attacking police - all lies actively pushed by decent kopites until videos and images were available.

I'll tell you the thing that pushed the wall over for me in relation to decent reds - Some "decent" red thought it would be a good idea to share the name and details of a young evertonian, saying that he was the guy firing the rockets at the liver buildings. This lie was quickly taken up by other "decent" reds, and shared far an wide over social media, thus perpetuating the lie.

Only when challenged did this information be called as an untruth, and some "decent" reds deleted their posts, but the damage had been done - no real apology to the lad it his family from any of them, as far as I could see - that is not the behaviour of "decent" people, let alone kopites.

Do you have any input on any of the above?

Therefore, I can only conclude that there are no decent reds - I will still class them as my friends and family, and still love them as, in the main, they are decent people, but in football releated matters, I cannot consider any red decent after this shameful weekend.

What actually breaks my heart, is the fact that Liverpool FC and it's "decent" fans, who have been so active in their search for the truth and justice, in relation to the wrongs done to them in the past by the west Yorkshire constabulary and the conservative government of 1989, can so readily and easily use lies, disinformation and untruths to try and cover up the actions of its supporters, and actively blame Evertonians for the disgraceful scenes witnessed.

I feel betrayed by all these so called "decent" reds, even though I am still proud that my club, myself and all Evertonians have stood shoulder to shoulder with Liverpool FC and their supporters in their fight for truth and justice for the 96, and would do so again in a heartbeat.

I can't stop you posting on this forum, and please take no offence if I also include you as one of these "decent" kopites, whose opinion in any football related matters is of no consequence or relevance to me.

Personally, I find it a little strange that you are not with like minded individuals celebrating your team's * title win, but each to there own.

As our famous chant goes - kopites are gobshites - the events this weekend have sadly proven this to be true.
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this sums up feelings towards them lot, sucks that people won't back down and use any means necessary to ease their conscience
 
redeye said:
Maybe you have led a sheltered life and not experienced too much about the human race.
There are some bad people out there.
I have lived in South Africa, Brazil, Saudi Arabia to name but a few countries so for you to generalize
It is wrong in my opinion.
Click to expand...
How come the majority of them gravitate towards supporting Liberfewl FC?

Seems like your club is fecal matter magnet.
 
I was going to post last night about the BBC North West coverage of the Pier Head incidents which opened with a lad singing "Everton -Everton - Everton" before the lads he was with drowned him out, which shows there was at least one Blue down there. I didn't post then because I thought it doesn't change the overall picture of bad behaviour by Liverpool supporters, but reading some of the overnight exchanges I feel we are getting overheated in the criticism of all Reds as being complicit.

I have had plenty of run-ins with the scummy elements of their support over the years: I was attacked at a derby match as a 16 year old, the pub I used to drink in on matchdays was attacked and vandalised, again after a derby match and a lad I knew got into a scuffle with a group celebrating Dixie's death, again after a derby match. So I know how mean-spirited and low they can be, but I also know some very decent Reds. I would even go so far as to say one of them is the nicest fella I know.

I know it is frustrating when people come on here and refuse to acknowledge their litany of crimes, but we need to keep some perspective, otherwise we come across as sanctimonious. How would people feel if some Blues were shown to be implicated in the trouble that followed?
 

redeye said:
I think 50000 fans in Madrid will prove that narrative.
No reported crimes, all there had a great time.
Bound to be some out for aggro but trying to prove all red fans are the same is well off the mark don't you agree?
Click to expand...

I appreciate you coming to the forum and being honest about who you support. But you did win in Madrid and just because you behave on one occasions doesn't make it ok to misbehave on other occasions, does it? I mean England fans behave well occasionally, but they also have moments where they behave abominably, and most Liverpool fans refuse to have anything to do with them as a result (which is fair enough as it's basically how I feel). However you have to be consistent with how you view incidents.

I am also pretty sure on that Champions league run, there was assaults going on, including an assault against an Asian gentleman with racist comments alongside racist comments as it was done (needlessly shoving him in a fountain). It was also the same run where a bloke got up on a podium and started masturbating in front of a massive crowd of people (including children) who were cheering him on. I am not sure if either of these were in Madrid, and it's not massively important which city suffered such behaviour that there was faultless behaviour as it's just not the case at all.

I don't think all Liverpool fans are the same, or even the majority are, but I think an ever vocal minority are increasingly dictating what it means to be a Liverpool fan, and it's around being "unbearable"- which is essentially code for being a bit of a knobhead. Be it racist, thuggish, misogynistic, homophobic, loutish etc. I think the decent majority of Liverpool fans actually have to start challenging what that means, or they will further colonise your club.

What tends to happen when something like this occurs, is you have the idiots who do it (a minority, but by no means a small minority). You then get a wider circle of people who don't do it themselves, but cheer it on and act like it's what LFC are all about. You then have another layer who will make an effort to condemn it, but do so conditionally (so will minimise it- "it was only 1 firework etc") and will draw a false equivalence between the actions of those partaking and those who are rightly offended and frustrated with the behaviour. Each of those groups are distinct from the other, but they all exist on the same continuum that allows for this sort of behaviour to go on.

I don't think you fit into any of those circles, but if you want to save your club from these idiots you really need to start speaking out against that pervasive culture, and it goes a lot lot deeper than just the people trying to burn the building down on Friday night.

We are fortunate not to have these problems at Everton. Thats why I don't by this "a few bad eggs" or "all clubs have them" nonsense. Everton fans have never behaved in that way (I know Lille gets thrown about, but at Lille the Major apologised for the police's behaviour, and acknowledged it was a ill placed training exercise in prep for the Euros, they were expecting thuggery and didn't get it.) Part of that is as a result of not having the success and thus the sense of entitlement Liverpool fans have. I also think, the sort of knobhead, who hops on the bandwagon because it's easy and trendy and knows he can indulge his deplorable tendencies just wouldn't see Everton as an avenue.

So if you want to help, great, but lets start with having an honest conversation about how deep the rot goes and start making some headway into fixing it. It means as LFC fans effectively clearing out 90% of the fan channels associated with your club, and letting them know they need to go and find a new bandwagon to go and jump on and to stop giving the club and the city a bad name.
 
redeye said:
I was disgusted by some videos I have seen of course.
Drunken teenagers mainly and getting away with it because of no police action.
Its a civil matter and surely the club can not comment or apologize just because they have a red shirt on.
Click to expand...

I've put something more on this above, but it wasn't just kids at all. It was mainly adults, behaving like children.
 
Magus said:
I was going to post last night about the BBC North West coverage of the Pier Head incidents which opened with a lad singing "Everton -Everton - Everton" before the lads he was with drowned him out, which shows there was at least one Blue down there. I didn't post then because I thought it doesn't change the overall picture of bad behaviour by Liverpool supporters, but reading some of the overnight exchanges I feel we are getting overheated in the criticism of all Reds as being complicit.

I have had plenty of run-ins with the scummy elements of their support over the years: I was attacked at a derby match as a 16 year old, the pub I used to drink in on matchdays was attacked and vandalised, again after a derby match and a lad I knew got into a scuffle with a group celebrating Dixie's death, again after a derby match. So I know how mean-spirited and low they can be, but I also know some very decent Reds. I would even go so far as to say one of them is the nicest fella I know.

I know it is frustrating when people come on here and refuse to acknowledge their litany of crimes, but we need to keep some perspective, otherwise we come across as sanctimonious. How would people feel if some Blues were shown to be implicated in the trouble that followed?
Click to expand...

Could you provide a Link to the beeb piece please - I didn't see the nw tonight news I'm afraid.
 

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