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Everton sack Andy Spence

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Not a fan of women's football, just seems very slow, same reason I can't be arsed watching league 1 games or non league, by the way, my 9 year old girl likes to play footy before the big men step in and try and shame me into being sexist, I'm sure woman's football is alot better now than it was years ago and as I tell my girl, by the time she's old enough to play for a career it'll probably be professional and paid better than it is now, when she tells me that the boys won't pass to her because she's a girl, I tell her to carry on and prove them wrong

Woman's UFC though is on another level for professional sport, as in it holds its own in a majority male sport
 

It's hard to deny that the top level of the women's game is a far lower standard than the top level of the men's game. But men don't only play football at the top level. There are Sunday leagues and pub leagues throughout the country that are a very poor level of football but plenty of men still get involved either by playing, coaching or watching it. School kids playing football is a very poor standard but parents still watch it because they enjoy seeing their kids have fun and being part of a team.

Just because the women's game isn't the very best it can be doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. You get more goals in the women's game which to many will make it more enjoyable. The women play for the love of the game and not because it's going to make them millionaires. The female players are more approachable. You can go to a women's game and stand pitch side and talk to the players after the game, you can actually get to know them. That will appeal to some fans who feel too detached from the millionaire foreigners in the premier league.

Although I haven't been to a ladies game for many years, I'd love to see the club invest a little more in the women's team so they can be more competitive again. 10 years or so ago we had a team of internationals challenging for the league title, now it looks like we're battling relegation again.
 
Lanolin said:
The argument is the same across much of womens sport, and it seems to me like a lot of people don't understand what it is that makes mens sport (generally speaking) more appealing. Basically the quality just isn't as high. That's not sexist, it's just a fact. There's potentially an argument that as a society we have been sexist in making speed and strength the measure of brilliance in our sports, but the bottom line is we have. Because of that, womens sport will always appear inferior, because the speed and strength is lacking.

If the best women play the best men at tennis, they will lose -probably horrifically - the fastest female 100m runner in the world wouldn't even qualify to run in the first round of a mens event etc.It doesn't make the whole sport rubbish or mean that women can't be great sportspeople in their own right, but why on earth would it be surprising that the fastest person in the world is feted more than the fastest woman in the world? The same reason we don't put such huge stock in being the fastest person aged under 25 in the world ,or the fastest over 50. Great achievements for the people involved obviously, but the caveats make it a much less laudable honour.

I've seen a few people say that 'if you treat it as a completely different sport' womens football is great. I'm sure that's true, but the obvious problem is that you can't, because it's not.

Anyway, i'm a proper bitter blue and would like the name Everton to be synonymous with winning trophies in every single competition we enter, so if a new manager will get the womens team up at the top of the table, good luck to them.
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Men being able to beat women doesn't make it inferior though does it? It makes it different. Nobody wants women to compete with men anyway (though Snooker and darts...I don't understand why that is split, I mean what difference would it make?)

I don't think its sexism that makes people measure speed and strength its simplicity. That's not just in comparison to men and women though, how many times do we see male players get classed as being boss just because they are fast? That happens in the women's game too though.

It is a different sport! Its men's football and women's football! In the same way you wouldn't compare professional men's football to youth football, it's different. Some people try to compare women players to men which I found bizarre as there are more than enough women to compare to other women.

Women's football does have a small following, it's also a very loyal one though so a market is there to an extent.

Anyway I don't want people liking women's football. Leave us minority alone to enjoy it in peace. (It is also great for making money on!)
 
bignev23 said:
I bet there are very few posters on here who follow the ladies team, very few... Just admit it.
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I don't really follow ours. I do follow others as they are way more accessible.

I dont find the English game to be very strong really though. It's improving but it still miles behind the bigger leagues.
 

Papa Shango said:
Men being able to beat women doesn't make it inferior though does it? It makes it different. Nobody wants women to compete with men anyway (though Snooker and darts...I don't understand why that is split, I mean what difference would it make?)

I don't think its sexism that makes people measure speed and strength its simplicity. That's not just in comparison to men and women though, how many times do we see male players get classed as being boss just because they are fast? That happens in the women's game too though.

It is a different sport! Its men's football and women's football! In the same way you wouldn't compare professional men's football to youth football, it's different. Some people try to compare women players to men which I found bizarre as there are more than enough women to compare to other women.

Women's football does have a small following, it's also a very loyal one though so a market is there to an extent.

Anyway I don't want people liking women's football. Leave us minority alone to enjoy it in peace. (It is also great for making money on!)
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No, it is absolutely not a different sport. It's split into mens and womens divisions, but the sport itself is the same. They could play against eachother with no issues at all, they don't play to different rules or on different pitches etc. The sport is split simply on an administration basis, not a sporting one. You even allude to this yourself by pointing out that darts and snooker could be mixed, because they're not reliant on speed and strength. They are of course split into mens and womens sections too, but you don't class them as different sports because it doesn't suit your argument.

Men being able to beat women does make it inferior in terms of quality, obviously. To suggest otherwise is frankly bizarre. I mean, what other metric could you possibly use to decide? As I thought I made clear, that doesn't mean that womens football can't be great for people who like womens football, in the same way that many people will tell you 'grass roots' football is better than the PL. What you enjoy is down to personal preference, and I certainly don't mean to suggest that nobody can like womens sport, far from it.

The point is that if the women were competing against men they wouldn't be at an elite level, and therefore the standard is unarguably lower. I don't see how that's in any way controversial to be honest.
 
Lanolin said:
No, it is absolutely not a different sport. It's split into mens and womens divisions, but the sport itself is the same. They could play against eachother with no issues at all, they don't play to different rules or on different pitches etc. The sport is split simply on an administration basis, not a sporting one. You even allude to this yourself by pointing out that darts and snooker could be mixed, because they're not reliant on speed and strength. They are of course split into mens and womens sections too, but you don't class them as different sports because it doesn't suit your argument.

Men being able to beat women does make it inferior in terms of quality, obviously. To suggest otherwise is frankly bizarre. I mean, what other metric could you possibly use to decide? As I thought I made clear, that doesn't mean that womens football can't be great for people who like womens football, in the same way that many people will tell you 'grass roots' football is better than the PL. What you enjoy is down to personal preference, and I certainly don't mean to suggest that nobody can like womens sport, far from it.

The point is that if the women were competing against men they wouldn't be at an elite level, and therefore the standard is unarguably lower. I don't see how that's in any way controversial to be honest.
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I class it as a different sport because they play in completely different ways. The divisions as you call them are not comparable even if they are the same game as different skill sets are used. Doesn't make it inferior though, just different. I suppose a lot depends on what you class as being a footballer.

Men being able to beat women doesn't make it anything at all, it means they are bigger and stronger that's all. Why do people compare anyway? There is no reason for them to do so at all.

I don't really understand the last paragraph as nobody has said that ever? I have seen girls who are perfectly two footed, can drop a ball on a sixpence (I think I am confusing a metaphor there but you know what I mean...) and can bamboozle players with their talent with the ball. They cant run faster or be stronger as it is physically not possible to be so but in terms of footballing ability there are some very gifted ones out there.
 
Fact of the matter about women's football is that pretty much any professional female footballer are better than the lot of us so stop being small minded and borderline sexist.

Just because people don't watch it personally doesn't make it any less compared to the male game and I could probably guarantee the women don't go rolling round on the floor like pansies half as much as the male players do.
 
Papa Shango said:
I class it as a different sport because they play in completely different ways. The divisions as you call them are not comparable even if they are the same game as different skill sets are used. Doesn't make it inferior though, just different. I suppose a lot depends on what you class as being a footballer.

Men being able to beat women doesn't make it anything at all, it means they are bigger and stronger that's all. Why do people compare anyway? There is no reason for them to do so at all.

I don't really understand the last paragraph as nobody has said that ever? I have seen girls who are perfectly two footed, can drop a ball on a sixpence (I think I am confusing a metaphor there but you know what I mean...) and can bamboozle players with their talent with the ball. They cant run faster or be stronger as it is physically not possible to be so but in terms of footballing ability there are some very gifted ones out there.
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Ah, now your last post makes sense. Sorry I think you've misunderstood what I was saying in the first place.

The point I was making is that football - like most popular sports - is based on speed and strength. So when you say men beating women doesn't mean anything because the men are just faster and stronger, you're proving me right not wrong. I'm saying that if your interest is seeing sport at it's highest level (note that i'm fully aware that not everybody has this aim, and there are plenty of people who enjoy womens football/park football/kids football more) then mens football is quite clearly the one to watch. The men are better than the women because they're faster and stronger, and being fast and strong is an important part of the game. Nobody's suggesting that women can't play football, of course they can. I haven't given the vaguest suggestion that I don't think a female player can be two footed or drop a ball on a sixpence, but men can too, and if they're faster and stronger then that makes them better at the game overall, hence me saying it.

You think nobody has ever said that women's sport at the top level is just as good as mens? Seriously? It's a regular argument, just wait til Wimbledon comes round and you'll hear all about it.

The only point I'm making is that if you have a contest based on speed, the person who is fastest will always be the one who is lauded the most. I find it odd that sometimes there's a bit of a backlash where people say 'why isn't Shelly-Ann Fraser as well known as Usain Bolt?', when it's obviously because Usain Bolt is faster, and people are more impressed that a person of any sex can run 100m in 9.58 seconds than that someone can run it in 10.7.

If you have a competition to see who is the best at a sport, you want to see who is actually the best, not who is the best in their category. Obviously womens sport can be great to watch, as can junior levels, the Paralympics etc, I just don't see why people get offended when Roger Federer gets more press than Serena Williams, because they are playing exactly the same sport and he would absolutely destroy her if he played against her. That's why I made the point that where popular sport may be seen to be sexist is that it tends to favour physical attributes over technical ones, so men will always be the ultimate champions in most peoples eyes. I have no doubt that women are every bit as capable as men of doing absolutely anything from a technical perspective, but the strongest man will always (evolution permitting) be stronger than the strongest woman.
 

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