Everton "special" Talksport 9:00pm Monday 10th Aug 2015

[The Esk]

Do we know for certain that Earl is connected with Vibrac, apart from having an office in the same building, whether he takes renumeration/dividends from Vibrac, and whether or not they have been declared? Given the 'right' answers to these questions, and if the answers are/should be in the public domain, should there have been official action about this?

No, there is no evidence other than the shared address which is likely shared with 100's of other companies.

Being a private company in BVI there's almost no way of finding out who the shareholders of Vibrac are. There is a procedure where you can apply to the BVI courts for information but that's extremely rare and only in the event of serious criminal activity which is obviously not the case here.

 

[The Esk]

Isnt that similar to Rangers paying their players wages into offshore tax avoidance schemes like this that brought them the attention of HMRC?

In what way is it similar?

 

[Bluesnapper]

Tax avoidance schemes.

 

[davek]

Do we know for certain that Earl is connected with Vibrac, apart from having an office in the same building, whether he takes renumeration/dividends from Vibrac, and whether or not they have been declared? Given the 'right' answers to these questions, and if the answers are/should be in the public domain, should there have been official action about this?

The more interesting question is who is involved in BCR Sports. We're told it's Earl but that cant be taken at face value. It's an investment vehicle and can withhold information about who exactly is involved. Given his connections and the suspicion of shadow directors pulling strings at EFC more of a song and dance should be made about this. Leeds' fans did exactly that and the politicians became involved and demanded clarification from LUFC and the Football League. I dont think it was ever forthcoming, but it lit a fire under the owners and the club has changed hands since.

 

[The Esk]

Tax avoidance schemes.

Ok, I still don't see the connection with Everton though?

In what way are they avoiding tax by borrowing from a BVI company?

 

[MickA]

The more interesting question is who is involved in BCR Sports. We're told it's Earl but that cant be taken at face value. It's an investment vehicle and can withhold information about who exactly is involved. Given his connections and the suspicion of shadow directors pulling strings at EFC more of a song and dance should be made about this. Leeds' fans did exactly that and the politicians became involved and demanded clarification from LUFC and the Football League. I dont think it was ever forthcoming, but it lit a fire under the owners and the club has changed hands since.

So, given the nature of the BVI privacy/secrecy laws we don't really know the source of funding that comes from VIBRAC or via BCR?

 

[Bluesnapper]

Ok, I still don't see the connection with Everton though?

In what way are they avoiding tax by borrowing from a BVI company?

Trace the posts backwards as it came up in the conversation.

 

[davek]

So, given the nature of the BVI privacy/secrecy laws we don't really know the source of funding that comes from VIBRAC or via BCR?

Quite simply, no.

We were told at the outset when Earl first popped up that he was holding 23% of the club's shares in his own and his family name. That was it. There's no mechanism that releases that info, it has to be done so voluntarily if the PL have ok'd it with their fit and proper person's test...an arrangement in Leeds' case which was criticised by a House of Commons select committee.

Vibrac/BCR - not a chance of getting to the bottom of it. The only reason to make it an issue would be to bring an unwelcome level of publicity for Earl (and whomever stands behind him, if anyone) and hope that expedites their departure.

If Kenwright slips out of the scene this is an issue that'll come front and centre. With Kenwright and Carter no longer around (not that I'm saying BK goes the way of PC) we'd have Jon Woods and some offshore investment vehicle in control!

 

[The Esk]

Trace the posts backwards as it came up in the conversation.

I did that but I still do not see the connection between the tax avoidance schemes of Rangers which denied HMRC of its rightful revenue and Everton borrowing money from a BVI Company?

 

[Bluesnapper]

The conversation was about offshore tax avoidance schemes and a those countries which have them, the club wasnt mentioned.

 

[AndyC]

I seen that slimy little bellend with Snodin walking past the Winslow on Saturday.

I couldn't possibly comment on the size of his bell end, but from what I am told he is indeed slimy.

 

[SerenityNigh]

I think you will find that a damaged brand, dissatisfied customer fanbase, and a long term sapping PR battle will effect a sale price and reputations.

None of that matters mate. If fresh money came in (from any source), most would forget old arguments.

The board consists of people whom are looking to maximize the equity value and brand damage, customer dissatisfaction, club performance and bad PR has a impact on equity value.

I don't believe this for a moment. If, for instance, Mark Cuban were interested in buying the club he would see a club with great tradition (a huge asset), a dissatisfied support (an asset easy to turn in your favor), and a (relatively) small price (which promises profit for his equity). A smart buyer sees this as increasing the value of the deal because the sale price could be much lower than the actual value.

The problem is that owning a PL club is not a profitable venture, and so an owner will only be interested in ownership as a hobby. Even if someone like Cuban were to buy the club for £125m and pocket £5m profit annually, his return is only 4%. He can find much better margins elsewhere.

"De-valuing the brand" by alienating the support probably has limited implications both for support and ownership, as the supporters will return and it doesn't seem to affect the business model.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Quite simply, no.

We were told at the outset when Earl first popped up that he was holding 23% of the club's shares in his own and his family name. That was it. There's no mechanism that releases that info, it has to be done so voluntarily if the PL have ok'd it with their fit and proper person's test...an arrangement in Leeds' case which was criticised by a House of Commons select committee.

Vibrac/BCR - not a chance of getting to the bottom of it. The only reason to make it an issue would be to bring an unwelcome level of publicity for Earl (and whomever stands behind him, if anyone) and hope that expedites their departure.

If Kenwright slips out of the scene this is an issue that'll come front and centre. With Kenwright and Carter no longer around (not that I'm saying BK goes the way of PC) we'd have Jon Woods and some offshore investment vehicle in control!

Dave ..one thing I can say with just about 100% certainty is that if BK is 'no longer around' then Jon Woods shares would be available for purchase at the drop of a hat. The difficulty if push comes to shove is always going to be the price that Earl wants for his shares. And he is a stubborn bugger...100% businessman and presumably pursuing 100% self interest . The difference with Bill K and Jon Woods is that if THEY thought the only way to 'save' Everton was to fall on their swords, they would have no hesitation in doing so. And even more so given that(like me !) they are both getting older and are susceptible to the physical ravages of age ! Of course, the opinion of a few on GOT, and BK and JW, as to when Everton might need 'saving' are miles apart.

 

[SerenityNigh]

It's still there on listen again.

Use the threadmark in this thread then choose 21:00 to 21:30 and 21:30 to 22:00 to listen to the Everton specific talk.

Great work on the thread marks in this and other threads mate

 

[SerenityNigh]

Genuinely gutted @the esk is called Paul. I wanted him to be called Herbert or Carter like family guy.

If Cafu wears Hibbert pyjamas, then superman wears ESK robes.

Nobody escapes the glaring eye of Esk's monocle.

@GrandOldTeam coud do some new mugs: "The ESK approves of this coffee"