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Match Thread Everton V Liverpool 19th December 2016

Will we do this for the first time since Moyes was here?

  • Yes

    Votes: 238 49.2%
  • No

    Votes: 200 41.3%
  • 72 points

    Votes: 46 9.5%

  • Total voters
    484
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Hopefully the Arsenal game was the shot in the arm the players needed, We MUST start well though, Come out and play like we did in the opening 20 on Tuesday night and we could be 2-0 down against this lot

We get "Face to face" with them and we can easily match them
 
Hopefully the Arsenal game was the shot in the arm the needed, We MUST start well though, Come out and play like we did in the opening 20 on Tuesday night and we could be 2-0 down against this lot

We get "Face to face" with them and we can easily match them

Maybe, but what worries me is our lack of attacking threat, and the considerable gap in the goals scored column between the teams. Mirallas and Del are poor. That injury to Bolasie really hurt us.
 
Maybe, but what worries me is our lack of attacking threat. Mirallas and Del are just so poor. That injury to Bolasie really hurt us.

There weakness is there defence, If we play like we did on Tuesday after those first 20 we will create chances, They conceded 6 against Bournemouth and West Ham who aren't the greatest going forward, Pity for us they've dropped that Keeper

I also believe that we will be tighter at the back if we are all closing down and pressing as a unit

If we revert back to type we will be in for a very bad night though
 
If you look to previous derbies over the last 15 years we seem to have been caught between two emotions. Fear and arrogance. It has led to the derbies becoming a wholly unenjoyable experience for most Evertonians. We've won 0 of the previous 12 or going further back just 2 of the previous 20 (or 4 from the previous 33).

At different times in that run, in spite of what the reds will say we have been favourites for the match. Whether that be being above them in the league, in better form or playing with a numerical advantage on the day, however we have not converted the advantage. I think there is now a mental bloc and a fear when paying them.

What I like about Monday is I have neither of those feelings. Possibly because I had written the game off post Watford. However I can't say I massively fear them or am arrogant enough to think we'll beat them, they are a very good team. What Arsenal showed us though, was a way of playing that suits our team. My focus is on seeing that sort of performance again and seeing if one or 2 of them can play their way back into contention with January looming.

There is no expectation for us in this game. They should roll us over. However if we can get to the level as we did against Arsenal it will be a competitive match. That should be all our focus is on. An objective that shouldn't really allow people to freeze, or look on as underdogs. Go out there, and focus on pressing, tackling, working hard without the ball and supporting one another. Going into a derby match with those feelings will be quite unique for these players and I'm hoping is a liberating feeling.

It was curious reading Barry Horne's column in the Echo who said as much. He played for Everton in a decade where we were rarely favourites, and in all honesty there was often more important things going on that just the derby match. Maybe it provided a freedom to inferior players knowing they had everything to gain? Unlike other tension filled 6 pointers it was a bit of a free hit and we could focus on making it as hard for them as possible. He's right and it worked. Our focus should be making it as hard as we can for Liverpool. They need the win. Going up top 8 points behind Chelsea, with Chelsea's upcoming fixtures is akin to waving the white flag. For us, outside of the FA CUP we have little to play for.

As I've indicated sequences can be reversed. Through the 70's/80's we has a run of just 2 wins in 31 games against some world class Liverpool teams. By the 90's though that had been turned on its head, we went 9 games unbeaten, lost 1 in 12 or just 4 in 21 in the 90's. Sequences are made to be broken and reversed. Likewise there's nothing inherently superior about Liverpool, or certainly this Liverpool team or club. DOn't forget blues that in the 1930's they went on a sequence just winning 2 games in 13. Or in at the turn of the previous century they won just 1 game in 19 (1899-1907) or when extended out it was just 3 in 26 or 4 in 31.

My point her is past performances, and sequences of bad results in the end aren't inherent. Both clubs have had good and bad runs historically. We are on a very bad run but it can be turned around. We have to play our game in the derby and not get bogged down in a desperation to win. I am actually looking forward to a Derby where we have nothing to lose. I just hope if we get be a, it's an Arsenal type effort not a Watford type performance.
 

If you look to previous derbies over the last 15 years we seem to have been caught between two emotions. Fear and arrogance. It has led to the derbies becoming a wholly unenjoyable experience for most Evertonians. We've won 0 of the previous 12 or going further back just 2 of the previous 20 (or 4 from the previous 33).

At different times in that run, in spite of what the reds will say we have been favourites for the match. Whether that be being above them in the league, in better form or playing with a numerical advantage on the day, however we have not converted the advantage. I think there is now a mental bloc and a fear when paying them.

What I like about Monday is I have neither of those feelings. Possibly because I had written the game off post Watford. However I can't say I massively fear them or am arrogant enough to think we'll beat them, they are a very good team. What Arsenal showed us though, was a way of playing that suits our team. My focus is on seeing that sort of performance again and seeing if one or 2 of them can play their way back into contention with January looming.

There is no expectation for us in this game. They should roll us over. However if we can get to the level as we did against Arsenal it will be a competitive match. That should be all our focus is on. An objective that shouldn't really allow people to freeze, or look on as underdogs. Go out there, and focus on pressing, tackling, working hard without the ball and supporting one another. Going into a derby match with those feelings will be quite unique for these players and I'm hoping is a liberating feeling.

It was curious reading Barry Horne's column in the Echo who said as much. He played for Everton in a decade where we were rarely favourites, and in all honesty there was often more important things going on that just the derby match. Maybe it provided a freedom to inferior players knowing they had everything to gain? Unlike other tension filled 6 pointers it was a bit of a free hit and we could focus on making it as hard for them as possible. He's right and it worked. Our focus should be making it as hard as we can for Liverpool. They need the win. Going up top 8 points behind Chelsea, with Chelsea's upcoming fixtures is akin to waving the white flag. For us, outside of the FA CUP we have little to play for.

As I've indicated sequences can be reversed. Through the 70's/80's we has a run of just 2 wins in 31 games against some world class Liverpool teams. By the 90's though that had been turned on its head, we went 9 games unbeaten, lost 1 in 12 or just 4 in 21 in the 90's. Sequences are made to be broken and reversed. Likewise there's nothing inherently superior about Liverpool, or certainly this Liverpool team or club. DOn't forget blues that in the 1930's they went on a sequence just winning 2 games in 13. Or in at the turn of the previous century they won just 1 game in 19 (1899-1907) or when extended out it was just 3 in 26 or 4 in 31.

My point her is past performances, and sequences of bad results in the end aren't inherent. Both clubs have had good and bad runs historically. We are on a very bad run but it can be turned around. We have to play our game in the derby and not get bogged down in a desperation to win. I am actually looking forward to a Derby where we have nothing to lose. I just hope if we get be a, it's an Arsenal type effort not a Watford type performance.


lol Typically concise, Catcher
 
lol Typically concise, Catcher

I'm never concise I'm afraid mate. If there was an award for mansplaining I'd be a record holder! Underneath the verbiage there's sometimes an important point though. Of the above it could be summarised too, get stuck into them and stop worrying about past performance as it will only hold you back. But where's the fun in writing that? :D
 
Maybe, but what worries me is our lack of attacking threat, and the considerable gap in the goals scored column between the teams. Mirallas and Del are poor. That injury to Bolasie really hurt us.

I disagree with that last bit.

Bolasie is not much of a miss IMO and Del carried more of a threat after he came on against United and at Watford and Lennon showed more against Arsenal than Bolasie has outside of the odd flash.

Bolasie's injury has forced a change in tactical formation with Valencia pleasantly surprising us since he started getting more time on the pitch after the former's injury.

Not only that, our full backs can operate better in the attacking third without Bolasie hindering them, as was evidenced against Arsenal.

We looked so one dimensional with Bolasie starting every game and being kept on the pitch every minute of it.
 

The ref will love sending one of ours off as soon as we put a strong tackle in. That's a derby against the rs for you.

One good thing though mate, if we turn it into a physical battle and they (which they will do) feel the need to respond in kind, they have a midfield of henderson, wijnaldum and lallana who cant actually tackle for [Poor language removed] and will just end up getting cards all over the shop
 
If you look to previous derbies over the last 15 years we seem to have been caught between two emotions. Fear and arrogance. It has led to the derbies becoming a wholly unenjoyable experience for most Evertonians. We've won 0 of the previous 12 or going further back just 2 of the previous 20 (or 4 from the previous 33).

At different times in that run, in spite of what the reds will say we have been favourites for the match. Whether that be being above them in the league, in better form or playing with a numerical advantage on the day, however we have not converted the advantage. I think there is now a mental bloc and a fear when paying them.

What I like about Monday is I have neither of those feelings. Possibly because I had written the game off post Watford. However I can't say I massively fear them or am arrogant enough to think we'll beat them, they are a very good team. What Arsenal showed us though, was a way of playing that suits our team. My focus is on seeing that sort of performance again and seeing if one or 2 of them can play their way back into contention with January looming.

There is no expectation for us in this game. They should roll us over. However if we can get to the level as we did against Arsenal it will be a competitive match. That should be all our focus is on. An objective that shouldn't really allow people to freeze, or look on as underdogs. Go out there, and focus on pressing, tackling, working hard without the ball and supporting one another. Going into a derby match with those feelings will be quite unique for these players and I'm hoping is a liberating feeling.

It was curious reading Barry Horne's column in the Echo who said as much. He played for Everton in a decade where we were rarely favourites, and in all honesty there was often more important things going on that just the derby match. Maybe it provided a freedom to inferior players knowing they had everything to gain? Unlike other tension filled 6 pointers it was a bit of a free hit and we could focus on making it as hard for them as possible. He's right and it worked. Our focus should be making it as hard as we can for Liverpool. They need the win. Going up top 8 points behind Chelsea, with Chelsea's upcoming fixtures is akin to waving the white flag. For us, outside of the FA CUP we have little to play for.

As I've indicated sequences can be reversed. Through the 70's/80's we has a run of just 2 wins in 31 games against some world class Liverpool teams. By the 90's though that had been turned on its head, we went 9 games unbeaten, lost 1 in 12 or just 4 in 21 in the 90's. Sequences are made to be broken and reversed. Likewise there's nothing inherently superior about Liverpool, or certainly this Liverpool team or club. DOn't forget blues that in the 1930's they went on a sequence just winning 2 games in 13. Or in at the turn of the previous century they won just 1 game in 19 (1899-1907) or when extended out it was just 3 in 26 or 4 in 31.

My point her is past performances, and sequences of bad results in the end aren't inherent. Both clubs have had good and bad runs historically. We are on a very bad run but it can be turned around. We have to play our game in the derby and not get bogged down in a desperation to win. I am actually looking forward to a Derby where we have nothing to lose. I just hope if we get be a, it's an Arsenal type effort not a Watford type performance.

The pressure is all on them going into this, as Liverpool have shown over the lastfew years - they don't handle that type of pressure great, Gerrard slip, Crystanbul, 2 lost cup finals one on penalties and including an utter collapse against Sevilla. even looking at this season - they went top then soon as the pressure of being there was on them won 2 of their next five including an utter collapse against Bournmouth.

Look at the results that get the media wetting themselves last seaosn and this over them, they areall away wins at the big four teams, games when no one expects them to win and they can play without pressure.

Come Monday night, they will be going in not only expected to win but also needing to win desperately, check their fansites out, most of them are calling 4/5 -0/1 type results out for the game.

Klopp has created a team that can play attractive footy etc, but is it a team that can go to battle in a Derby under the floodlights with a angry Goodison at it's loudest, dont think so myself.

Wheels are coming off their title charge well and truly come Monday and will be fun to see them all go back into the woodwork for a period of time
 

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