Everton Youth Teams Thread

[mightymoyes]

If we qualify for Europa league group stages he's definitely not goin on loan

 

[Eggs]

Gibson here and all

....so chuffed, a few of us have been mentioning him lots this season. The most reassuring thing from those pictures is his size. He’s a powerful lad but he’s towering over Unsworth and Coleman. Nice touch to see Coleman having a few words with him.

Left footed and a defender with attitude who likes to defend. He’s not Digne or Baines type, but he’ll put his body on the line for the cause. Good luck to him.

 

[macdog]

What worries me about loans is that a promising loan can easily end up a disaster with a new manager, or poor tactics etc. I'd rather he stay and get a taste of the Everton way than be sent off to play hoofball with a dinosaur.

 

[Zatara]

...delighted, I know a few of us have been impressed with this lad. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s part of Silva’s pre-season.

Think he is a shoe in Eggs. The fact that he is training with the first team at the minute Inthink shows that they like him. Would think pre season, new contract and championship loan for the lad will be how we see it go for next season.

....I was with you until you mentioned the ‘loan’ word. Gibson is a CB who can play LB, with Jagielka and Baines out of contract, i’d much prefer if Gibson was cover than loan.

I posted on another thread about loanees and could only come up with Osman, Barkley and Coleman who have played 50 league games for Everton after a loan spell. The most talented come straight in (Davies and DCL of late) because the Manager wants to use them.

I know the argument about these youngsters gaining experience, but the reality is that the vast majority of loanees have careers elsewhere.

I would have thought that at any other time in the past 20 years you would be right and that we would keep him and play him.
Everton have usually done well with blooding young defenders early.... just think his game time next year will be limited and it would be better for him to play 40 games in the championship than wasting his time with U23s football. If we get into the europa then keep him and play him if not a loan is the best we can do for the lad in my opinion.

....I understand the logic, but being with the Everton 1st team manager, players and coaches will be invaluable. They can use him when necessary and look after the players development and welfare. League football is ultra competitive, let’s not forget Gibson is yet to play open-age footy, so the rigours of the Championship could be detrimental.

If we are really following Brands blueprint Gibson won't be going on loan and should be part of first team squad next season.
Unless he has a complete disaster of a preseason

40 games next season for a Championship side will help his development rather than 5 games next season for us.

Its a well-tread path that every young player needs to take, you play under age footy, then you go out in the big wide world and play proper footy, if your good enough you break through the next season. Most of our yoots go out on loan and then flop, cos the difference between Under age footy and even footy at League One is MASSIVE.

The reason DCL has broken through is due to our Strikers being rubbish.

We had everybody suggesting Dowell and Beni should have stayed with us, instead both have gone on loan and arent even getting games.

.....and your post is a little contradictory. You say it’s the way to go, then say Dowell and Beni have failed. DCL has benefited from staying.

I entirely understand the logic, but history tells us that very few who go on loan make it at Everton, whereas those who come straight in have a better chance. 5 games as an 18 year old might be more beneficial for Gibson than the intensity of Championship football under a manager who only cares about getting results.

A manager will prefer to keep a player he feels he can use. It’s a good sign if he stays.

Surely that's an example of why loans aren't a magic cure all solution though? It's been suggested Beni is injured.

There's little doubt games do players good in general, but being around the first team squad makes a big difference. I do wonder if (for example) Brandon Galloway regrets going out on loans that didn't work out when he was seemingly part of the first team squad.

Immediately gives the player belief that they may be Premiership quality, send them out on loan and if they struggle in League 1 or Championship inneviatbly they will lose a portion of confidence and ,maybe start to question if they are the real deal. A huge amount of the game is in the head!

Its hit and miss tho, I mean we have Osman, Barkley and Coleman who we all agree benefitted from a loan. Then theres LOADS of others who clearly didnt, but how many of them would have made it anyway, even if they stayed. I agree with the Galloway thing, he was part of the team and he looked the part, he then has a failed loan after a failed loan and hes playing U23 footy still at 23.

Anyway, hopefully Gibson does make the breakthrough, we paid big money for the lad at 17. Its just pointless keeping him if hes gonna be 5th choice. Thankfully for him, we currently only have 2 CBs ready for next season, so if hes good enough theres certainly a spot ready.

With Baines likely being released it’s a great time for a young left back to be coming through at Everton.

Digne will play every game that he’s fit and on that basis alone we would struggle to attract an experienced player who is content to just bench warm.

This is the perfect scenario to introduce a young player to the first team and let them experience all that goes with it. For me, Gibson’s ability to also provide centre-back cover puts him ahead of Robinson but a good pre-season is essential to nail down the spot.

DCL did get experience in the lower leagues before he joined us though, as did Stones before him, and Dele Alli for Spurs.
Further afield, Harry Kane went out on loan numerous times, before breaking through.
I suspect it depends on the mentality of the player more than anything, as it's a big step going from the relatively nurturing environment of youth football to open-age, and it's probably easier to mentally make that step in 5-10 minute appearances in the PL than it is playing full-games in front of (potentially hostile) crowds in the Championship or lower leagues.

....absolutely, there are instances. All i’m saying, though, is lots of folk think it’s the automatic way to go but history doesn’t particularly back that up. I’m not convinced. I’m more persuaded to think our best are better being introduced into the first team set-up here rather than thrown in the deep end under a Manager elsewhere who has different priority.

The other point I will make about Gibson is that he’s had a few injury issues of late. He’s still in a physical development stage at 18 and needs to be monitored.

Loans are fine to put young professionals in the shop window but they should not be a given for all.

....so chuffed, a few of us have been mentioning him lots this season. The most reassuring thing from those pictures is his size. He’s a powerful lad but he’s towering over Unsworth and Coleman. Nice touch to see Coleman having a few words with him.

Left footed and a defender with attitude who likes to defend. He’s not Digne or Baines type, but he’ll put his body on the line for the cause. Good luck to him.

What worries me about loans is that a promising loan can easily end up a disaster with a new manager, or poor tactics etc. I'd rather he stay and get a taste of the Everton way than be sent off to play hoofball with a dinosaur.

Its an unwinnable argument because we cant know how well;

A -- Players we have loaned would have done if they had stayed

B -- Players we have kept would have done if they had been loaned

My own view is that he is in a fantastic position because we will perhaps only have Digne at LB and Mina/Keane in the centre.

At PSV and also Ajax i dont think many (if any) players are loaned out at his age. They are in and around the first team as he is now.

If we are serious about developing players and feel he is able to even be an 'average' level performer in the league at his age then we should be using him as 2nd choice left back and 3rd/4th choice centre back.

Most importantly though we have to extend his contract as he only has 1 year left.

 

[Goat]

Its an unwinnable argument because we cant know how well;

A -- Players we have loaned would have done if they had stayed

B -- Players we have kept would have done if they had been loaned

My own view is that he is in a fantastic position because we will perhaps only have Digne at LB and Mina/Keane in the centre.

At PSV and also Ajax i dont think many (if any) players are loaned out at his age. They are in and around the first team as he is now.

If we are serious about developing players and feel he is able to even be an 'average' level performer in the league at his age then we should be using him as 2nd choice left back and 3rd/4th choice centre back.

Most importantly though we have to extend his contract as he only has 1 year left.

Cant really compare us to Dutch sides, their youngsters dont need loaning out, their U23s literally play in the championship.

 

[Zatara]

Cant really compare us to Dutch sides, their youngsters dont need loaning out, their U23s literally play in the championship.

True, but then again if you take certain players (at ajax for example) De Ligt, De jong etc they were kids playing in Europe for the past couple of seasons.

They are the level of players we need to aspire to as those who will force their way into the first team 11...as opposed to the squad.

Gibson could come in next season and be a superstar, theres no way of knowing....or he could show hes a squad player who could improve.

But the model can still be followed.

 

[Goat]

True, but then again if you take certain players (at ajax for example) De Ligt, De jong etc they were kids playing in Europe for the past couple of seasons.

They are the level of players we need to aspire to as those who will force their way into the first team 11...as opposed to the squad.

Gibson could come in next season and be a superstar, theres no way of knowing....or he could show hes a squad player who could improve.

But the model can still be followed.

But there is a way of knowing Zat, sure nobody knows for sure, but the coaches, Brands, Silva, they will all know if hes even close to the level needed, not as a matter of certainty, but they know. The Dutch clubs benefit due to not being able to go out and spend utter fortunes on players, which "forces" them to play their yoots.

I said it myself tho, we all want the squad improved, but we have to leave space in there for some lads to be given chances, a pathway.

But its not always easy, Lookman is a prime example, hes been in and around the first team for nearly 2 years now, bar 6months in Germany and hes barely making first team squads most weeks. Hes wasted 2 years of his career, the most important 2 years of his career I would say, to what, train with us and watch the game on the tele. He would have massively benefitted from a loan.

Then theres DCL, I said a few times he needed a loan, hes stuck around, we needed him, he took his chances, now granted he was defo given more than Lookman, but I do agree with your first statement, there isnt a right or wrong way to do it.

 

[Zatara]

But there is a way of knowing Zat, sure nobody knows for sure, but the coaches, Brands, Silva, they will all know if hes even close to the level needed, not as a matter of certainty, but they know. The Dutch clubs benefit due to not being able to go out and spend utter fortunes on players, which "forces" them to play their yoots.

I said it myself tho, we all want the squad improved, but we have to leave space in there for some lads to be given chances, a pathway.

But its not always easy, Lookman is a prime example, hes been in and around the first team for nearly 2 years now, bar 6months in Germany and hes barely making first team squads most weeks. Hes wasted 2 years of his career, the most important 2 years of his career I would say, to what, train with us and watch the game on the tele. He would have massively benefitted from a loan.

Then theres DCL, I said a few times he needed a loan, hes stuck around, we needed him, he took his chances, now granted he was defo given more than Lookman, but I do agree with your first statement, there isnt a right or wrong way to do it.

Good point about lookman although we may see that hes been working on his game in training and see a better player emerge.

Doesnt seem likely mind you...

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Its an unwinnable argument because we cant know how well;

A -- Players we have loaned would have done if they had stayed

B -- Players we have kept would have done if they had been loaned

My own view is that he is in a fantastic position because we will perhaps only have Digne at LB and Mina/Keane in the centre.

At PSV and also Ajax i dont think many (if any) players are loaned out at his age. They are in and around the first team as he is now.

If we are serious about developing players and feel he is able to even be an 'average' level performer in the league at his age then we should be using him as 2nd choice left back and 3rd/4th choice centre back.

Most importantly though we have to extend his contract as he only has 1 year left.

That nails it for me. The cards seem to have fallen in his favour and there is a definite senior squad place for him if he takes his chance now.

It’s a risk yeah but I would be content with him covering Digne and focussing our attention on upgrading other positions.

 

[Eggs]

That nails it for me. The cards seem to have fallen in his favour and there is a definite senior squad place for him if he takes his chance now.

It’s a risk yeah but I would be content with him covering Digne and focussing our attention on upgrading other positions.

....I have come around to thinking he is a CB who can play LB. I was always a bit concerned about his height (not his bulk because he’s a solidly built lad), but the shots of him at USM FF yesterday showed him towering over Unsworth and Coleman.

He might not have finished growing but I am persuaded to agree that his future rests as a left sided CB. I’m reminded of Kevin Ratcliffe who broke into the team as a very ordinary LB, it wouldn’t surprise me if Gibson follows a similar route but he’s a CB as far as i’m concerned.

 

[Simon baker]

Its an unwinnable argument because we cant know how well;

A -- Players we have loaned would have done if they had stayed

B -- Players we have kept would have done if they had been loaned

My own view is that he is in a fantastic position because we will perhaps only have Digne at LB and Mina/Keane in the centre.

At PSV and also Ajax i dont think many (if any) players are loaned out at his age. They are in and around the first team as he is now.

If we are serious about developing players and feel he is able to even be an 'average' level performer in the league at his age then we should be using him as 2nd choice left back and 3rd/4th choice centre back.

Most importantly though we have to extend his contract as he only has 1 year left.

Good read this

Comparing English, Dutch coaching

How can the number of homegrown players in the Premier League be increased? Two top coaches gave their views on how to produce football's next stars.

www.espn.com

 

[catcherintherye]

Its an unwinnable argument because we cant know how well;

A -- Players we have loaned would have done if they had stayed

B -- Players we have kept would have done if they had been loaned

My own view is that he is in a fantastic position because we will perhaps only have Digne at LB and Mina/Keane in the centre.

At PSV and also Ajax i dont think many (if any) players are loaned out at his age. They are in and around the first team as he is now.

If we are serious about developing players and feel he is able to even be an 'average' level performer in the league at his age then we should be using him as 2nd choice left back and 3rd/4th choice centre back.

Most importantly though we have to extend his contract as he only has 1 year left.

Yes it's a fair point and I agree it's hard to rule one out or the other.

What I will say though is I don't think anything beats playing in Everton's first team. I know that sounds a bit of a ridiculous thing to say as it's blindingly obvious. However if you can get into the team and not be let out, for say 20 games then you stand a great chance. Each game you will be learning and quite quickly you will show whether you can cope at first team level.

I maintain that the worst thing Galloway did was allow himself to lose that place. Likewise Garbutt before him, messed about with a Contract and ultimately lost his place as well.

There may be opportunities in early pre-season games for Gibson, he needs to look to nail down that place.

 

[catcherintherye]

....I have come around to thinking he is a CB who can play LB. I was always a bit concerned about his height (not his bulk because he’s a solidly built lad), but the shots of him at USM FF yesterday showed him towering over Unsworth and Coleman.

He might not have finished growing but I am persuaded to agree that his future rests as a left sided CB. I’m reminded of Kevin Ratcliffe who broke into the team as a very ordinary LB, it wouldn’t surprise me if Gibson follows a similar route but he’s a CB as far as i’m concerned.

I'm sure this was the plan with Galloway (who to some degree was unfortunate) and with Stones. Colgate may have played himself in with a chance that he could get a final opportunity this summer (or get a decent move to West Brom if they are promoted).

In the end you only know when you give people a chance. With Stones though it was clear the management team thought highly of him, there was no worry about throwing him in at 19 and little talk of him going out on loan. There seems to be a similar feel to Gibson.

You are right about physicality too, he's a very bulky lad but seems to have shot up a bit and looks to me like he could handle the league physically. He may still continue to grow which would be good.

Either way, I wouldn't be in a rush to sign another left back.

 

[Ring master]

Everton u18s team ? facing Sunderland,12.30ko at Finch Farm

Tyrer, Quirk, Hughes, Mckeown, Collins, Hunt, Adedoyin, Carroll, Anderson, Cannon, Simms
Subs Barrett, Warren, Richards, Warnock, Zuk

 

[Ring master]

Everton u18s team ? facing Sunderland,12.30ko at Finch Farm

Tyrer, Quirk, Hughes, Mckeown, Collins, Hunt, Adedoyin, Carroll, Anderson, Cannon, Simms
Subs Barrett, Warren, Richards, Warnock, Zuk

Simms makes it 1-0 on 14mins
Carroll makes it 2-0 on 20mins