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Everton Youth Teams Thread

Nymzee said:
That didn't help but we've been free of that for a while now and not invested. Will be even harder with Brexit now as academies will focus purely on homegrown talent.
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I think we are probably seeing the effects of that to be honest.

Going forward we will have to compete harder for the talent. City hoover up everything in the north west.
 
Nymzee said:
I mean my comment wasn’t on the back of the England thing; it’s a thought I’ve had for ages now. I disagree though that half decent academy players are of use to us because half decent academy players are your JJK’s who are of zero use to us. Even less so if we eventually become a European side again. I don’t even blame the managers for not using the players because they’re simply not good enough.

I also don’t see the point in bringing up players like Lookman and DCL who we did not develop as an academy.

Like out of the current U23’s and U18’s how many do you see either becoming PL squad players or generating decent fees? Barely even a handful for me.
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Out of the current U23 s I honestly can't see any of them being a first team player at the moment. Dobbin could make the next step and so could Onyango but it's not an outstanding group. Welch may have an outside chance but I doubt he will make it either. For the U18s, no idea as it's basically a brand new team so I haven't seen any of them for any length of time. I do like Quintyne tho.

If JJK came through at a bottom half prem side he's probably a starter for them now but for us he's not good enough. We act like a European or big side despite the fact we're not in the transfer market. We bought 4 number 10s despite the fact our best kid out the academy was Dowell.

Look at Liverpools academy, 2 first teamers in the past 10 years in Jones and TAA. And they pinched TAA off us. Other than that could you really say any of them would've been squad players for us? Maybe Williams and Wilson at a push. But they hit the jackpot and got TAA and made it all worthwhile. City are also the same, how many prem players despite all the money recently? Foden and that's it. And that's what it is all about for me, you keep the academy going along where some years you have down years and won't produce anyone of note in the hope you land yourself a TAA, Rooney, Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Kane. That's what makes it all worthwhile. And we are better at that than most.

That's why I think we should do the opposite of what you think, instead of closing the academy we should be tripling it's investment. It'd take time to change perceptions because we've been leaking talent. And to be honest I also think what's the point in it at times recently, we absolutely butchered Davies development and the two best kids to come through recently both just left for a pittance. But all that's down to the first team rather than the sins of the academy. We need to change the mentality of the top of the club where instead of just wasting money on squad players we give the kids a chance instead otherwise we will never stop burning money. We lucked into DCL by continuously buying dreadful strikers, if even one of them was any good or we did buy Giroud we would've probably loaned DCL to a league 1 club and never bothered to develop him properly. We will never develop squad players if they're never given the chance. Case in point the large man naming 8 subs with 2 goalies on it vs Brighton
 
EFC_FRANCIS said:
Out of the current U23 s I honestly can't see any of them being a first team player at the moment. Dobbin could make the next step and so could Onyango but it's not an outstanding group. Welch may have an outside chance but I doubt he will make it either. For the U18s, no idea as it's basically a brand new team so I haven't seen any of them for any length of time. I do like Quintyne tho.

If JJK came through at a bottom half prem side he's probably a starter for them now but for us he's not good enough. We act like a European or big side despite the fact we're not in the transfer market. We bought 4 number 10s despite the fact our best kid out the academy was Dowell.

Look at Liverpools academy, 2 first teamers in the past 10 years in Jones and TAA. And they pinched TAA off us. Other than that could you really say any of them would've been squad players for us? Maybe Williams and Wilson at a push. But they hit the jackpot and got TAA and made it all worthwhile. City are also the same, how many prem players despite all the money recently? Foden and that's it. And that's what it is all about for me, you keep the academy going along where some years you have down years and won't produce anyone of note in the hope you land yourself a TAA, Rooney, Bellingham, Foden, Grealish, Kane. That's what makes it all worthwhile. And we are better at that than most.

That's why I think we should do the opposite of what you think, instead of closing the academy we should be tripling it's investment. It'd take time to change perceptions because we've been leaking talent. And to be honest I also think what's the point in it at times recently, we absolutely butchered Davies development and the two best kids to come through recently both just left for a pittance. But all that's down to the first team rather than the sins of the academy. We need to change the mentality of the top of the club where instead of just wasting money on squad players we give the kids a chance instead otherwise we will never stop burning money. We lucked into DCL by continuously buying dreadful strikers, if even one of them was any good or we did buy Giroud we would've probably loaned DCL to a league 1 club and never bothered to develop him properly. We will never develop squad players if they're never given the chance. Case in point the large man naming 8 subs with 2 goalies on it vs Brighton
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Just increasing the funding for the academy doesn't help unless we can consistently offer sweeteners and the like to these kids parents. However surely trippling the budget of the academy in the hopes of getting a sure thing kinda leans into my "is it sustainable anymore" theory?

Also think you're being a bit disrespectful to the talent City's academy has produced if the only PL level player you think they've produced is Foden.
 
We need to find a way to bring academy players through.

Gordon needs to get some game time this year. Some of the others need to make it to the bench and play the last 10 minutes of games. We just have to do it.
 
Nymzee said:
Just increasing the funding for the academy doesn't help unless we can consistently offer sweeteners and the like to these kids parents. However surely trippling the budget of the academy in the hopes of getting a sure thing kinda leans into my "is it sustainable anymore" theory?

Also think you're being a bit disrespectful to the talent City's academy has produced if the only PL level player you think they've produced is Foden.
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I still think its sustainable now but I would triple it anyway because I believe you're going to get more out of spending 10 million on that than you will from 1 player over the long run. Yeah I'd up the sweeteners again because that was how we had a good academy and attracted talent. Just maybe don't get caught this time. The first team isn't sustainable. We're paying James Rodriguez 10 million this season and we don't want him. Walcott we were paying 2.5 million to play for another prem side last season. As I said the academy take like 1 or 2 players sales every couple years to keep it in profit it's pretty much the only sustainable arm. Even if we tripled it we may not triple our return but we would still likely return profit and maybe better players.

I forgot about Tosin whos a good centre half (playing in the champ) but after that whos the best their actual academy has produced recently? I think it's Frimpong but there's not many. THB has a chance but hasn't made it yet. I'm not letting you count imports like Diaz, Sancho, Garcia, Delap and the like who were all bought at age 16. Otherwise we could count Branthwaite for us.
 

EFC_FRANCIS said:
I still think its sustainable now but I would triple it anyway because I believe you're going to get more out of spending 10 million on that than you will from 1 player over the long run. Yeah I'd up the sweeteners again because that was how we had a good academy and attracted talent. Just maybe don't get caught this time. The first team isn't sustainable. We're paying James Rodriguez 10 million this season and we don't want him. Walcott we were paying 2.5 million to play for another prem side last season. As I said the academy take like 1 or 2 players sales every couple years to keep it in profit it's pretty much the only sustainable arm. Even if we tripled it we may not triple our return but we would still likely return profit and maybe better players.

I forgot about Tosin whos a good centre half (playing in the champ) but after that whos the best their actual academy has produced recently? I think it's Frimpong but there's not many. THB has a chance but hasn't made it yet. I'm not letting you count imports like Diaz, Sancho, Garcia, Delap and the like who were all bought at age 16. Otherwise we could count Branthwaite for us.
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Gordon?
 
EFC_FRANCIS said:
I still think its sustainable now but I would triple it anyway because I believe you're going to get more out of spending 10 million on that than you will from 1 player over the long run. Yeah I'd up the sweeteners again because that was how we had a good academy and attracted talent. Just maybe don't get caught this time. The first team isn't sustainable. We're paying James Rodriguez 10 million this season and we don't want him. Walcott we were paying 2.5 million to play for another prem side last season. As I said the academy take like 1 or 2 players sales every couple years to keep it in profit it's pretty much the only sustainable arm. Even if we tripled it we may not triple our return but we would still likely return profit and maybe better players.

I forgot about Tosin whos a good centre half (playing in the champ) but after that whos the best their actual academy has produced recently? I think it's Frimpong but there's not many. THB has a chance but hasn't made it yet. I'm not letting you count imports like Diaz, Sancho, Garcia, Delap and the like who were all bought at age 16. Otherwise we could count Branthwaite for us.
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I mean, we didn't sign Branthwaite at 16 so... even Simms if he makes it here is a City product. If we go back to when Rooney came through here's who they've had and who we've had:

Davies
Kenny
Dowell
Barkley
Duffy
Rodwell
Anichebe
Rooney
Osman
Hibbo

Simms (Up to 16) if he makes it.
Eric Garcia (16)
Jadon Sancho
Brahim Diaz (15)
Tyrese Campbell (will be a PL player)
Rony Lopes (16)
David Brooks
Tosin Adarabioyo
Kasper Schmeichel
Micah Richards
Sturridge
Ben Mee
Trippier
Ireland
 
boris said:
Yes, as has Matty Apter who’s an u15 who’s also been doing really well for us lately.

That doesn’t stop you getting picked for England though. You can play for Scotland 1 day and England the next at this age group. If you want to.
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Is Apter in the Scotland squad , they only showed Bell and Lawrence ?. I’ve only really seen Apter in the game against City u18 , but he looked promising given his age.
Scotland U17s and Wales drew 1-1 on Thursday and neither Bell or Lawrence featured , the second game is tomorrow maybe they’ll both play then . FA of Wales often steam their home games on their Facebook page, Scotland don’t appear to do so.
 

Nymzee said:
At what point do you give up on academy football? Surely it must operate at a loss eventually. Should just go like Brentford B went.
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Was thinking about this the other day, maybe worth exploring sacking off the academy if we're not taking it seriously and concentrate on snapping up 18, 19, 20 yr olds from likes of city and Chelsea who are having doubts about their futures there
 
mightymoyes said:
Was thinking about this the other day, maybe worth exploring sacking off the academy if we're not taking it seriously and concentrate on snapping up 18, 19, 20 yr olds from likes of city and Chelsea who are having doubts about their futures there
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I mean we never will; we all love the academy football too but you must wonder at what point an academy becomes a bit pointless.

It's like working in an industry with apprenticeships and never taking any of them on in the end.
 

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