Everton Youth Teams Thread

[Eggs]

Onyango?

…he has the physicality but even for the U23 he lacks quality. He trains with the first team, he has the physical equipment to play ‘open age’ but it’s still a massive step up. Time will tell, there’s not much ahead of him.

 

[blue_order]

Our youth set up is abysmal. You can count on one hand and suck your thumb the amount of premier league standard* level players that have come through our system. The likes of United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea are always going to produce decent players but for us to not make one actual decent footballer since say Rooney or Osman (wasn't that bad was he) is truly shocking.

No idea who's fault it is, the youth scouts maybe? Unsworth is basically a childminder for most of them as they seem to be released the minute they hit a certain age and go for next to nothing. Brands? Don't know what he's doing with the first team never mind the youth set up.

 

[MikeH72]

The problem you have, Mike, is you're sat at the end of the conveyor built waiting for the wrapped up present but not paying attention to what happens along the way. Simply thinking sacking Unsworth will give us PL level academy players is quite frankly insane as it is not the root cause of the problem. If we had a bunch of Ross Barkley's in the U18's who got to the U23's and never progress I'd agree, but we don't and we haven't.

People point to other PL teams like Saints and Norwich etc. playing youngsters but just because they're young doesn't mean they're very good. Saints gave debuts to Yan Valery and Will Smallbone when they were around 19 but do you think those two players, at 19, are players you'd want in our squad? Not at all. Teams lower in the table, without the expectatons around our club, can afford to play youngsters how are just okay. The complete anomalies that are Chelsea and City have so much more money and pull than we do in the academy. I mean even look across the park - how many PL talents have the RS brought through in the last 10 years?

Here is the U18 squad from 10 years ago. I'll skip through all the squads to now and tell you who I personally thought/think are PL level talents: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/everton-fc-u18/startseite/verein/6920?saison_id=2011

Ryan Ledson - Highly promising, we all thought he'd maybe come through, he left for minutes and is slowly working his way to a high level.
Keiran Dowell - Coaching didn't hold him back, he held himself back. Is now in the PL for Norwich.
Tom Davies - PL player
Liam Walsh - Same as Ledson with physicality holding him back too not coaching.
Antonee Robinson - Personally never really thought he was all that but has shown he's probably a bottom half PL left-back.
Antony Evans - Held himself back, never really pushed himself on.
Beni Baningime - Honestly thought he could have done a job for us; never let us down when he played.
Anthony Gordon - I do think he's a PL level player but maybe not our level yet.
Ellis Simms - I don't think he's PL level yet and maybe never will be.
Ryan Astley - Bigged up when he was 16 but he's most certainly not got the physical stature to be a PL centre-half

We have a few now that are getting bigged up: Dobbin, Onyango, Welch, Campbell, Small etc. but it's a bit early for them and even then I'm not really sure any will make it here. Remember everything is subjective and some on the forum rate players more than others. They all need the eye test.

As you can see it is not a case of Unsworth holding players back it's just the talent was never really there to begin with.

This is something that Brands should be looking into then. An overhaul of the youth setup from recruitment right through the academy, is needed. This is something I thought he’d prioritise when he arrived 3 years ago.

 

[BNJ1878]

The problem you have, Mike, is you're sat at the end of the conveyor built waiting for the wrapped up present but not paying attention to what happens along the way. Simply thinking sacking Unsworth will give us PL level academy players is quite frankly insane as it is not the root cause of the problem. If we had a bunch of Ross Barkley's in the U18's who got to the U23's and never progress I'd agree, but we don't and we haven't.

People point to other PL teams like Saints and Norwich etc. playing youngsters but just because they're young doesn't mean they're very good. Saints gave debuts to Yan Valery and Will Smallbone when they were around 19 but do you think those two players, at 19, are players you'd want in our squad? Not at all. Teams lower in the table, without the expectatons around our club, can afford to play youngsters how are just okay. The complete anomalies that are Chelsea and City have so much more money and pull than we do in the academy. I mean even look across the park - how many PL talents have the RS brought through in the last 10 years?

Here is the U18 squad from 10 years ago. I'll skip through all the squads to now and tell you who I personally thought/think are PL level talents: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/everton-fc-u18/startseite/verein/6920?saison_id=2011

Ryan Ledson - Highly promising, we all thought he'd maybe come through, he left for minutes and is slowly working his way to a high level.
Keiran Dowell - Coaching didn't hold him back, he held himself back. Is now in the PL for Norwich.
Tom Davies - PL player
Liam Walsh - Same as Ledson with physicality holding him back too not coaching.
Antonee Robinson - Personally never really thought he was all that but has shown he's probably a bottom half PL left-back.
Antony Evans - Held himself back, never really pushed himself on.
Beni Baningime - Honestly thought he could have done a job for us; never let us down when he played.
Anthony Gordon - I do think he's a PL level player but maybe not our level yet.
Ellis Simms - I don't think he's PL level yet and maybe never will be.
Ryan Astley - Bigged up when he was 16 but he's most certainly not got the physical stature to be a PL centre-half

We have a few now that are getting bigged up: Dobbin, Onyango, Welch, Campbell, Small etc. but it's a bit early for them and even then I'm not really sure any will make it here. Remember everything is subjective and some on the forum rate players more than others. They all need the eye test.

As you can see it is not a case of Unsworth holding players back it's just the talent was never really there to begin with.

All of that is correct.

However, if the club had open interviews for every single role at the academy (completely ignoring Evertonian connections) I'm sure the vast majority of our career underachievers would be replaced.

A school can have incredibly bright students but if the teacher is a complete mongrel they are not going to fulfill their academic potential.

If we had a functioning academy I'd be far happier buying 10 x 5 million pound teenagers than 2 x 25m bang average top-flight players.

We have a DoF operating in a completely dysfunctional environment, yet he cops the blame for all kinds. Brands stated his strategy at the very start, unfortunately, the owner loves big personality managers (except Silva) and backs them all, except our current one, every time. That's why we are in the mess we find ourselves in today.

At the very least he should have as a minimum TOTAL control over the academy, not tip-toe around long-standing pieces of furniture that are long overdue for the bommy.

 

[Eggs]

This is something that Brands should be looking into then. An overhaul of the youth setup from recruitment right through the academy, is needed. This is something I thought he’d prioritise when he arrived 3 years ago.

….these Academies recruit 8 year olds, it’ll take a long time for change to impact.

The reality is kids don’t walk around with a football at their feet these days. You rarely see kids playing footy in the street, structured school football isn’t in place anymore, kids sit in their bedrooms and play on computers. It’s a different world, a different culture.

There’s still talent but not as much to be nurtured in Academy. A lot of clubs bring youngsters in from abroad & elsewhere, we have had a ban in recent times.

 

[Nymzee]

This is something that Brands should be looking into then. An overhaul of the youth setup from recruitment right through the academy, is needed. This is something I thought he’d prioritise when he arrived 3 years ago.

Well we had an academy ban when he arrived for 2 years if you'd forgotten (of course) but now we're out of it we're also struggling to buy up talent. We may never get up to a point where we do it successfully again.

 

[Nymzee]

All of that is correct.

However, if the club had open interviews for every single role at the academy (completely ignoring Evertonian connections) I'm sure the vast majority of our career underachievers would be replaced.

A school can have incredibly bright students but if the teacher is a complete mongrel they are not going to fulfill their academic potential.

If we had a functioning academy I'd be far happier buying 10 x 5 million pound teenagers than 2 x 25m bang average top-flight players.

We have a DoF operating in a completely dysfunctional environment, yet he cops the blame for all kinds. Brands stated his strategy at the very start, unfortunately, the owner loves big personality managers (except Silva) and backs them all, except our current one, every time. That's why we are in the mess we find ourselves in today.

At the very least he should have as a minimum TOTAL control over the academy, not tip-toe around long-standing pieces of furniture that are long overdue for the bommy.

But again, your first point hints that the staff at the academy are holding back the youngsters which they aren't. The. Talent. Is. Not. There.

The second point doesn't really ever occur because The. Talent. Is. Not. There.

 

[MikeH72]

Well we had an academy ban when he arrived for 2 years if you'd forgotten (of course) but now we're out of it we're also struggling to buy up talent. We may never get up to a point where we do it successfully again.

Did that academy ban also stop him bringing in his own youth coaching and scouting team? Actually not being passive aggressive or facetious here, genuinely asking, because it could’ve done for all I know.

 

[BNJ1878]

But again, your first point hints that the staff at the academy are holding back the youngsters which they aren't. The. Talent. Is. Not. There.

The second point doesn't really ever occur because The. Talent. Is. Not. There.

You may well be right, but if talent isn't nurtured properly at a crucial age of development you will never know.

Of all the players you listed, a few have let themselves down. Others may have done better with better coaching. You don't know, I don't know.

In my opinion, we should forget the Evertonian connection, hire the best coaches we can attract. Otherwise, it's a complete waste of time.

 

[MikeH72]

You may well be right, but if talent isn't nurtured properly at a crucial age of development you will never know.

Of all the players you listed, a few have let themselves down. Others may have done better with better coaching. You don't know, I don't know.

In my opinion, we should forget the Evertonian connection, hire the best coaches we can attract. Otherwise, it's a complete waste of time.

Mad that people just can’t wrap their heads around the theory that coaches can actually improve players.

 

[Crestfallen]

Our youth set up is abysmal. You can count on one hand and suck your thumb the amount of premier league standard* level players that have come through our system. The likes of United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea are always going to produce decent players but for us to not make one actual decent footballer since say Rooney or Osman (wasn't that bad was he) is truly shocking.

No idea who's fault it is, the youth scouts maybe? Unsworth is basically a childminder for most of them as they seem to be released the minute they hit a certain age and go for next to nothing. Brands? Don't know what he's doing with the first team never mind the youth set up.

Youth system is not fit for purpose. It doesn’t contribute anything but players for the lower leagues. It’s a shambles.

 

[BNJ1878]

Did that academy ban also stop him bringing in his own youth coaching and scouting team? Actually not being passive aggressive or facetious here, genuinely asking, because it could’ve done for all I know.

No, the ban period would have been the ideal time to completely dismantle the existing operation and start fresh.

But that would certain protected members of staff would need to find gainful employment elsewhere.

 

[BNJ1878]

Mad that people just can’t wrap their heads around the theory that coaches can actually improve players.

It's fine, people are entitled to their opinions. But to suggest that even with better coaching they wouldn't perform better is a bizarre position to take.

 

[Nymzee]

Did that academy ban also stop him bringing in his own youth coaching and scouting team? Actually not being passive aggressive or facetious here, genuinely asking, because it could’ve done for all I know.

I'm not sure but again, I think maybe I need to tattoo this somewhere:

The talent is not there.

 

[Nymzee]

You may well be right, but if talent isn't nurtured properly at a crucial age of development you will never know.

Of all the players you listed, a few have let themselves down. Others may have done better with better coaching. You don't know, I don't know.

In my opinion, we should forget the Evertonian connection, hire the best coaches we can attract. Otherwise, it's a complete waste of time.

Which?