Everton Youth Teams Thread

atrottel said:
Fair enough Mikey (although you do leave yourself wide open to have the pee extracted sometimes).

Just to go on your post above:

We keep Duffy and give him a run in the team. What knock-on effect does that have at that time on Browning and Pennington, bearing in mind that no professional PL manager is likely to play half his defence lacking experience without being forced by injuries. And, even if we slot, say, Browning into the defence as well, what effect would that have had on Galloway and Holgate (let alone Feeney, Foulds, Connolly, Kenny, Jones, etc.).

We do not live in a Magical Mikey Wonderland where PL points are irrelevant and teams can rise to 16 players to give the youth a chance with 6 at the back. At some point you are going to be forced to make decisions on who is likely to make the grade, whether a Holgate in a couple of years might be better than a Duffy now, whether the talent of a Davies or a Walsh outweighs the industry of a Jones or a Ledson or a Lundstram, whether a Calvert-Lewin or a Duffus might be more effective than a McAleny.

Pretty much all of the young lads have talent, they wouldn't have got to the stage of the U23s if they didn't. Even so, some will be completely out of professional football pretty rapidly through not quite making the grade, bad luck with injuries or just not being the right fit.

And when people like myself, who do take an interest in the youth, express any reservations about players, it does rub the wrong way when we get painted with the broad Mikey brush of being too quick to throw the youngsters under the bus.
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I've deleted my previous reply as I didn't think it was a worthwhile contribution, hopefully this one is a bit better

Basically, I apologise if you ever feel I have been unfair to you regards to a young player, but at the end of the day unless I target you directly you have chosen to be offended by that "broad Mikey brush" and I'm afraid that isn't my problem. You can choose to think it includes you or you can choose to think it doesn't, but that's ultimately an inner debate you need to have with yourself

We both know there is a big difference between reservations and kicking a young player unjustly. In situations where I think the latter have happened, I will say something. You can debate me on it or just simply ignore it, but if you choose to be rubbed the wrong way then that again is down to you, unless I specifically target you personally (I don't know if I ever have, but if I have done then please feel free to point out an example and I'll happily apologise if I feel I was out of line)

If we played Duffy in the team and he did well, which I think he would have done, then those players perhaps don't come through. That's the law of the jungle. Again, if the incumbent player is doing well I'm not going to call for him to be dropped just to give a young player a go for the craic. When I wanted Davies in the team it was because I felt Cleverley was playing poorly and Davies' prior good run outs entitled him to a go at replacing him. Had Cleverley been tearing it up and playing amazing, I wouldn't have been banging that drum so much because what would be the benefit of doing so?

I'm not screaming for Dowell to play am I? This is because the other players in that role are doing well. However, I'm not happy with Funes Mori (You may be fine with him I don't know) so I want Holgate or Pennington in the squad instead

I have never at any point asked for an Everton team to play a younger player in a game that has mattered where I have felt they wouldn't do at least as good as a job as the senior player they were replacing. Pre-season is different

I don't believe PL points are irrelevant. Do you think Alcaraz would do any better than Duffy did? I thought not, hence why I was happy with him playing in the Premier League instead of him because I didn't believe it would have any effect on us claiming those points

Are Valencia or Kone that much better than Calvert-Lewin at this stage? The difference is marginal at best if you ask me

Is Kev better than Lookman? Yeah, maybe he is at the moment, so play him, but don't batter Lookman either (Not that I'm accusing you of doing this)

Again, I fear you have simplified my stance on this matter to suit an argument. I don't put player development ahead of points, and never have. I'll only want a kid in if I think he can handle it, and if I don't think so I won't demand he play. I'm not asking for Griffiths to be starting over Robles am I? Why would I, Robles has been great recently, it'd be madness to replace him. If I was as you say I am, I would be asking for this
 
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all being well next season and we qualify for the EL, we improve the starting 11 with a few quality purchases and then the squad is fleshed out with the likes of Kenny, Pennington, Connolly, Walsh, Dowell kept on and given proper minutes in league cup and EL.

The last 2 seasons we've had utter tripe warming the bench, players who Koeman worked hard to shift out in the window and this leaves space for others to challenge.

I'm of the same opinion of @Mikey_Fitzgerald regarding Pennington, definitely worth a a spot in the squad, especially of Jagielka moves on in the summer and that's even if we buy another top class CB it would be nice to have a choice of 4.
 
@Mikey_Fitzgerald
No, I agree with most of what you say (possibly apart from Duffy and, although you didn't mention him in your post, McAleny) and thanks for addressing the points I raised.

What I was trying to say is that the majority of players will not stay because they are not adequate for what we are looking for at the time. One can say they are not good enough (or are not likely to be good enough) without meaning it to criticise them.

So I would argue that Holgate is good enough (in a three, not a four) and gives us versatility in defence. But Koeman likes to play a four as well.
I would think Pennington would do a job (as would Jagielka) although I have concerns about him being slow on the turn when someone is running at him (and equally about Jagielka in this season's form). I suspect that he might not be quite good enough and that we will get in at least one better and younger defender to eventually replace Funes Mori and/or Williams. Great lad and I think he will have a fine career somewhere, as @MorgsGoat said.

It's like Koeman said about midfield - it is going to be extremely difficult for anyone to break through because of the current competition we have there. Do you rest Davies to give Williams or Walsh game experience? Do you take out Gana or Schneiderlin? Because at some point as the clock is ticking and the conveyor belt of youth is rolling, you have to make a decision about a Duffy, a Ledson, a McAleny and a Grant.
 
PORTSMOUTH V EVERTON,7PM KICK OFF TONIGHT-PITCH JUST PASSED 4.30 PITCH INSPECTION,
Everton need to win off course

TABLE PREMIER LEAGUE CUP

Norwich 10 points from 6 games - score 13,con 9 -[GD plus 4]
Portsmouth 8 points from 5 games - score 9,con 5 - [GD plus 4]
Everton 7 points from 5 games - score 6,con 7 -[GD minus 1]
Wolves 5 points from 6 games - score 7,con 14-[GD minus 7]

Sunderland u23,Brighton u23s,west ham u23s,Liverpool u23s,Reading u23s,Blackburn u23,Hull u23s,Fulham u23s,Middlesbrough u23s,Norwich u23s are teams that will 100% be in the last 16, other teams are tight in there groups with some going to last game to decide who gets to last 16
 
atrottel said:
@Mikey_Fitzgerald
No, I agree with most of what you say (possibly apart from Duffy and, although you didn't mention him in your post, McAleny) and thanks for addressing the points I raised.

What I was trying to say is that the majority of players will not stay because they are not adequate for what we are looking for at the time. One can say they are not good enough (or are not likely to be good enough) without meaning it to criticise them.

So I would argue that Holgate is good enough (in a three, not a four) and gives us versatility in defence. But Koeman likes to play a four as well.
I would think Pennington would do a job (as would Jagielka) although I have concerns about him being slow on the turn when someone is running at him (and equally about Jagielka in this season's form). I suspect that he might not be quite good enough and that we will get in at least one better and younger defender to eventually replace Funes Mori and/or Williams. Great lad and I think he will have a fine career somewhere, as @MorgsGoat said.

It's like Koeman said about midfield - it is going to be extremely difficult for anyone to break through because of the current competition we have there. Do you rest Davies to give Williams or Walsh game experience? Do you take out Gana or Schneiderlin? Because at some point as the clock is ticking and the conveyor belt of youth is rolling, you have to make a decision about a Duffy, a Ledson, a McAleny and a Grant.
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In terms of CBs, Funes is unreliable, Jags is done, Williams is getting there. That's 3 CB slots. Buy one in (e.g. Keane), keep a place for Pennington and Holgate. See if Williams can do another year, if not buy another in.

Barry is finished, so we keep a space open next season for Walsh/Williams to fight Davies, Gana, Scneiderlin for a place.
 

Billy Dean said:
In terms of CBs, Funes is unreliable, Jags is done, Williams is getting there. That's 3 CB slots. Buy one in (e.g. Keane), keep a place for Pennington and Holgate. See if Williams can do another year, if not buy another in.

Barry is finished, so we keep a space open next season for Walsh/Williams to fight Davies, Gana, Scneiderlin for a place.
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I would throw the summer budget at Keane and VVD. Centre half is our weak point especially with Jags looking finished now and Williams being another year older.

Those 2 and Tielemans would be a boss summer.
 


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