Forest fan - 20th April, we need to do something

[GrandOldTeam]

There's already talk of banners, displays, booing of the PL anthem etc. However, there's also a balance to be had, because I think most Forest fans are happy with the 4 points and to some extent I think we've dodged a bullet.

"A balance to be had" - it's self interest/scab behaviour isn't it?

I could understand why there would be more of a strength of feeling when you were initially deducted 10. To expect other fans to rally behind Everton at that stage was unfortunately never going to happened;

Nobody expected support, but lets have it right - Forest fans were happy with Everton's punishment because it give Forest an advantage.

maybe it will take more and more teams to get points deducted before something nationally happens... Aston Villa and Leicester look to be next.

Truthfully, I think most Forest fans just want to get on with it and concentrate on matters on the pitch, however with the game on 20th April, there's a chance to at least do something, but I think that's unlikely.

Everton fans have protested at every game - it's on Forest to get their fingers out. They wont, because as you say - for your club "there's a balance to be had/self interest"

 

[Iana]

If you delve deeper in to the forums, I would say the majority of Forest fans think 4 points is pretty good as we were expecting at least 6. There's also lots of Forest fans that have been critical of our approach to transfers as well. The main issue that I personally think is unfair is that the 3 year period is judged on time spent in the Championship, which means your 'allowed losses' our limited further - it makes the step up for a promoted team without parachute payments very difficult. People will argue that some teams have been able to do it e.g. Brighton, but even they are forced to sell their best players to bigger clubs.

The independent commission rejected the Championship PSR mitigation because there were 12 previous examples of clubs who had managed(excluding Bournemouth and Fulham who had benefited from parachute payments).

Based on the evidence I would wager if Forest had been given a higher threshold for PSR you would have carried on spending even more.

 

[lostthatlovinfeelin]

Well yeah, which is why we’re not going to rally behind you now. You had no interest in backing us up when we were done, despite us all trying to warn you that you were next. So sniff it, in your own words you’re cheats and have been deservedly punished, so get on with it.

You never really understand a situation until it happens to you. From my POV, I didn't join in with the cheat chants when we played you in December because I knew what was coming our way. I don't think any other football fans will truly understand the issues behind FFP, until it happens to there club. I have zero expectation of other clubs rallying behind Forest, and I have a small 0.1% expectation that 2 sets of fans who have both been clobbered by unfair rules, might come together. It's becoming apparent on this forum that this is unlikely, but it has at least generated a discussion around FFP, which is what I wanted.

 

[Evertonthat]

Anyway, as a response to your actual point:

Everton fans have continually demonstrated since being done back in November. It won't go away, even had we got all 10 points back on appeal. It's a shame that other club's didn't join us but to be fair, it's not the responsibility of other club's and their fans to stand up for Everton. Moreover, they might have just simply seen it as "well just don't break the rules, we didn't".

I'm not entirely sure if a joint demonstration will achieve anything, in truth. From the outside, a lot of people will just view it as the 2 guilty teams crying that they were caught.

For me, it will only start really shaking things up when other clubs join us in protesting against the very flawed processes and rules that are in place to maintain the status quo. Sadly, I just don't see it happening. The UEFA model of FFP that is said to be coming into affect could well stop Draconian punishments, but it just seems to lock teams in place unless they can somehow massively increase revenue.

Sadly other clubs won't be joining us in protesting, quite the opposite. Didn't Burnley actually ban any anti Premier league banners in an attempt to stop us protesting at Turf Moore in December?

 

[Toffe3m4n]

You never really understand a situation until it happens to you. From my POV, I didn't join in with the cheat chants when we played you in December because I knew what was coming our way. I don't think any other football fans will truly understand the issues behind FFP, until it happens to there club. I have zero expectation of other clubs rallying behind Forest, and I have a small 0.1% expectation that 2 sets of fans who have both been clobbered by unfair rules, might come together. It's becoming apparent on this forum that this is unlikely, but it has at least generated a discussion around FFP, which is what I wanted.

Fair play mate. For what it's worth you do seem like one of the 'sensible' ones. Enjoy the forum.

 

[mahermi1]

Sadly other clubs won't be joining us in protesting, quite the opposite. Didn't Burnley actually ban any anti Premier league banners in an attempt to stop us protesting at Turf Moore in December?

And that's why the big six will always win, the other 14 are just a rabble trying to survive.

 

[Toffe3m4n]

And that's why the big six will always win, the other 14 are just a rabble trying to survive.

Clear as anything to me at this point that the majority of the 'other 14' are content to merely cling onto the Premier League gravy train for as long as they can...

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Think the majority of replies to my original post are intent on labelling me ‘hypocritical’ or a ‘scab’. Had to reiterate a few times that I’ve never called Everton fans cheat or sung the poverty chants.

As for FFP, I think your second points deduction will be low, maybe 3 points but like you’ve said, you’ll have to sell players in the summer by 30th and sell them cheaply, which in the long term does not help you meet the PSR rules, as you’re not generating the revenue needed to be sustainable - it’s farcical and even worse when Man City can operate with free reign.

Thank the Lord that some of these melodramatic characters were not leading the country during WW2 - we'll all be currently speaking German because we dared not form an alliance with Stalin or Truman based on "principles".

FFP is our biggest threat, every fan supporting a club who are not in the top 6 need to be engaging in demonstration and protest against the League and its corrupt rules. If fans are happy to see their clubs be perennial midtable cannon folder because they can't get past petty fan rivalry then we deserve everything we get, including Utd or Spurs shafting us for Branthwaite on 30th June.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

And a targeted leafleting campaign as well I hope.

They'll be reeling from that.

 

[lostthatlovinfeelin]

"A balance to be had" - it's self interest/scab behaviour isn't it?



Nobody expected support, but lets have it right - Forest fans were happy with Everton's punishment because it give Forest an advantage.



Everton fans have protested at every game - it's on Forest to get their fingers out. They wont, because as you say - for your club "there's a balance to be had/self interest"

Sorry, I meant I think most Forest fans think that the 4 points is a fair punishment, so they don't see the need to protest, because on balance, they don't see the point. Let's say Everton were deducted 4 points in November, would you have seen the same level of response from Everton fans? Probably not to the extent that a 10 point deduction had on the club.

Of course there's an element of self-interest, in the sense that it would benefit Forest if you were deducted more points for the second breach. Equally, Everton fans are probably happy that we've been deducted points, because it has benefited them to some extent. I don't think that's linked to scab behaviour, more seeing things through football-tinted glasses.

 

[Jamiednm]

Unless there is a real protest (I.e. - mass boycott of matches, games played in empty stadiums), then any protest is pointless.

You wouldn’t know there was any kind of protest by Everton fans, other than some little banners and booing the PL anthem. Like wow, that’ll show ‘em!

 

[SunKing]

I doubt we'd have had much sympathy for Forest if roles had been reversed. Football is tribal and we all enjoy seeing other clubs suffer until we can relate. I don't think a joint protest would make much news though. I think what you need is supporter clubs of all 14 teams rallying and demonstrating a show of force, if they really want to start off change.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Sorry, I meant I think most Forest fans think that the 4 points is a fair punishment, so they don't see the need to protest, because on balance, they don't see the point. Let's say Everton were deducted 4 points in November, would you have seen the same level of response from Everton fans? Probably not to the extent that a 10 point deduction had on the club.

Of course there's an element of self-interest, in the sense that it would benefit Forest if you were deducted more points for the second breach. Equally, Everton fans are probably happy that we've been deducted points, because it has benefited them to some extent. I don't think that's linked to scab behaviour, more seeing things through football-tinted glasses.

Think you are only here because its dumped you in a relegation fight and into the bottom 3. Had your club been safe mid table say where Fulahm or Bornemouth are at. You would not be representing your club here. And had you come with open arms when our points deduction hit as Forest and others were spoken about getting the same treatment this season, myself would view your plight with some integrity, so in essence, hindsight is never a good start. Enjoy your football.

 

[lostthatlovinfeelin]

Thank the Lord that some of these melodramatic characters were not leading the country during WW2 - we'll all be currently speaking German because we dared not form an alliance with Stalin or Truman based on "principles".

FFP is our biggest threat, every fan supporting a club who are not in the top 6 need to be engaging in demonstration and protest against the League and its corrupt rules. If fans are happy to see their clubs be perennial midtable cannon folder because they can't get past petty fan rivalry then we deserve everything we get, including Utd or Spurs shafting us for Branthwaite on 30th June.

I've had to wade through an awful lot of responses to get to some sensible response, so far I've had:

• Scab - I was born in the nineties
• Tory scum - I don't do politics
• You called us cheats - I didn't join in with those chants in December
• Stop chanting about Poverty - I have never chanted these songs
• You're hypocritical - I've accepted that this is a valid point

I'm used to racial abuse at lots of matches I go to, so this is pretty mild, but the big 6 cartel is happening and the new rules are going to be even worse, very saddening for clubs like Everton and Forest.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Sorry, I meant I think most Forest fans think that the 4 points is a fair punishment, so they don't see the need to protest, because on balance, they don't see the point. Let's say Everton were deducted 4 points in November, would you have seen the same level of response from Everton fans? Probably not to the extent that a 10 point deduction had on the club.

Of course there's an element of self-interest, in the sense that it would benefit Forest if you were deducted more points for the second breach. Equally, Everton fans are probably happy that we've been deducted points, because it has benefited them to some extent. I don't think that's linked to scab behaviour, more seeing things through football-tinted glasses.

I dont think any Everton fans are happy Forest have been deducted less points for a substantially higher PSR breach.

I dont want any points deductions for any teams but lots of clubs and fans supported our ridiculous initial 10 point penalty. And I think it's only fair we receive equal treatment to other clubs. That clearly didn't happen with the 4 point Forest ruling.

Fans of all clubs should be opposing the PSR rules and these points deductions because its bigger than any one club. But it won't happen because of self interest and we saw that with the chants when we played away at Forest.