from my cold dead hand

[neonleon]

I can't see how you can label a whole set of people who seek to enshrine human rights for all as 'lesbians' as well as all the other things and not be homophobic.

explain the difference between this and the racist posts that seem to get you so worked up.

What rights should these 'criminals' have?

 

[neonleon]

english language evolves all the time, socio darwianianism or something similar.

i cant excuse or condemn words/literature we cant agree on.

i googled him. American.

and the truth shall set you free...

 

[SuitsBlue]

I can't see how you can label a whole set of people who seek to enshrine human rights for all as 'lesbians' as well as all the other things and not be homophobic.

explain the difference between this and the racist posts that seem to get you so worked up.

What rights should these 'criminals' have?

you group individuals that enshrine human rights with those that are lesbians?

thats your stand?

ever heard of legal time wasters?

you group sexuality and perceived sexuality along with race? are you sure?

i get "worked up" at personal abuse, who have i personally abused?

 

[neonleon]

not saying you have personally abused people.

just that accusing posters of racism on NSNO, and then calling people lesbians for support human rights, is somewhat hypocritical.

 

[SuitsBlue]

erm, a part of the womens lib brigade gone crazy.


and when sexual orientation equates to racial authenticity i have yet to encounter.

 

[neonleon]

you group individuals that enshrine human rights with those that are lesbians?

thats your stand?

ever heard of legal time wasters?

you group sexuality and perceived sexuality along with race? are you sure?

i get "worked up" at personal abuse, who have i personally abused?

its the hairy arm pitted, flat shoe wearing hippy lesbian human rights brigade that enable todays criminal with 'rights' and 'decency'.

that was your post.

 

[neonleon]

erm, a part of the womens lib brigade gone crazy.


and when sexual orientation equates to racial authenticity i have yet to encounter.

racial authenticity? can you explain that term. Is that what you question when someone pretends to be black and they're really white or vice versa?

Homophobia (prejudice towards people who are sexually attracted to the same sex) and Racism (prejudice towards someone on the basis of their skin colour or ethnicity) do not equate, but ultimately are similar issues, in that they deal with the prejudice and discrimination towards an element in society.

We all discriminate and we are all prejudice to some degree.

 

[SuitsBlue]

yeah, that is mine.

im targeting the excuse making sector that rely on human rights to excuse the guilty.

too often its been the pro life comfy shoe lezzers (not restricred to race - apologise as soon as ou like) that are the barbs fighting against condemning criminals.

 

[SuitsBlue]

racial authenticity? can you explain that term. Is that what you question when someone pretends to be black and they're really white or vice versa?

Homophobia (prejudice towards people who are sexually attracted to the same sex) and Racism (prejudice towards someone on the basis of their skin colour or ethnicity) do not equate, but ultimately are similar issues, in that they deal with the prejudice and discrimination towards an element in society.

We all discriminate and we are all prejudice to some degree.

right on, my capability to condemn criminals and castigate those that protect them has no bearing on me, it appears to me that justcie and right vs wrong is on trial here.

but its an old joke, used to excuse the real scum of society.

leon, you provide for the criminals, you have them live next door to you and your family.

 

[neonleon]

the guilty. the criminals.

imagine one day being falsely accused. Youre put in a cell and beaten to within an inch of your life.

they extract a false confession. Remember you don't have any rights.

You got to prison, only its a work prison where you are forced to work 12 hours a day, in mindless backbreaking labour in inhumane conditions.

you can't appeal against the sentence with all the overwhelming evidence your friends and allies have gathered because you have no rights.

But lets not scenarios like this (all too common scenarios) get in the way of your Charles Bronson style of justice.

Its far from an enlightened utopia you describe, it sounds medieval.

 

[neonleon]

right on, my capability to condemn criminals and castigate those that protect them has no bearing on me, it appears to me that justcie and right vs wrong is on trial here.

but its an old joke, used to excuse the real scum of society.

leon, you provide for the criminals, you have them live next door to you and your family.

"the criminals"? are they a band?

are these people who haven't paid their telly licence or people who taped the last coldplay album for their mate?

You are taking an element from society (people who break the law) and making them all sound like Ian Brady.

I'm not suggesting murderers and convicted rapists should be on our streets, I don't intend to protect them. But everyone should have rights to prevent injustice. It is for you as well as them.

 

[monty]

"the criminals"? are they a band?

are these people who haven't paid their telly licence or people who taped the last coldplay album for their mate?

You are taking an element from society (people who break the law) and making them all sound like Ian Brady.

I'm not suggesting murderers and convicted rapists should be on our streets, I don't intend to protect them. But everyone should have rights to prevent injustice. It is for you as well as them.

I will never forget the lad from Rochdale, worked in the local tax office, big fat lad, slightly backward who got put away for life for the murder of Leslie Moleseed. He was stitched up by the police because he was scared, and an easy target for any agressive copper, got knocked from pillar to post in nick, wasn't capable of defending himself, that went on for 11 years, he was innocent. What the police failed to tell the court was one very salient fact, he was infertile and impotent. That poor lad died with in months of his release such was the stress and torture our society subjected him to, years ago he'd have been hung.............another reason why capital punishment is a very dodgy affair indeed. If you can't trust the police who can you trust.

 

[neonleon]

I will never forget the lad from Rochdale, worked in the local tax office, big fat lad, slightly backward who got put away for life for the murder of Leslie Moleseed. He was stitched up by the police because he was scared, and an easy target for any agressive copper, got knocked from pillar to post in nick, wasn't capable of defending himself, that went on for 11 years, he was innocent. What the police failed to tell the court was one very salient fact, he was infertile and impotent. That poor lad died with in months of his release such was the stress and torture our society subjected him to, years ago he'd have been hung.............another reason why capital punishment is a very dodgy affair indeed. If you can't trust the police who can you trust.

one of my points exactly monty.

I think the victims of crime are coming out of it alot worse these days, but the answer isn't to start chopping hands off people and hanging rapists.

People who advocate giving the state the power to incarcerate ad infinitum, torture, and deprive them of their humanity (even if their crimes didn't evidence any humanity in themselves), never forsee an eventuality where they or friends of there's become the victims of miscarriages of justice.

there are other issues I covered in this thread, but this a very important one.

 

[SuitsBlue]

a human being is defined by its actions.

i recall the lad from rochdale stitched up by some corrupt coppers.

they would have been first on the gallows the following day.

a uniform is not immunity from the law, regardless of the steven lawrence case.

i cant stand the ''peace and love'' brigade, because it is these 'enablers' that shout loudest when they are personally affected.

selfishness to the power 'N'

 

[neonleon]

a human being is defined by its actions.

i recall the lad from rochdale stitched up by some corrupt coppers.

they would have been first on the gallows the following day.

a uniform is not immunity from the law, regardless of the steven lawrence case.

i cant stand the ''peace and love'' brigade, because it is these 'enablers' that shout loudest when they are personally affected.

selfishness to the power 'N'

interesting. The police that bounced the lad round a cell to get a confession, did so because they thought they "knew" the truth and he "was guilty" and a "criminal".

but if you advocate this system of justice surely you must assume a level of culpability when it goes wrong. You have enabled the death of an innocent man. So you execute the police responsible.

What if evidence later arises that the police were correct. Do you take partial responsibility for this miscarriage of justice? Would you submit yourself for execution?

there are a myriad of arguments to deny the use of the death penalty, not least that the deterrent arguments holds little water (are people still being murdered in countries with the death penalty - have a look?).

And of course there is always the presumption that the state acts in an honourable way. Governments throughout the world nearly always act more nefariously than your average citizen, especially when there is political capital at stake. We are not all lucky enough to live in relatively liberal societies.

What you are championing is a lynch mob system of justice. This "enables" injustice. Lynch mob justice saw black people strung up on trees for a variety of minor infractions. It is the same realm of reactionary justice that saw people attack the home of a child molester.

I'm simply suggesting we should apply intelligence. Any idiot can wave a sword with a loud mouth to look like he's a friend of justice.

its why, through history, justice has always been depicted blindfolded. they were making a point.

Do you see?