Guardiola to be found out in the premier league

[catcherintherye]

Man Citys net spend in the last decade is over a billion quid and they haven't won the champions league yet you're saying any criticism of them isn't warranted and is in-fact racist? Whats your angle here Catcher? City and Chelsea have played a big part in ruining football. City being taken over pushed them in-front of us and kicked us further down the pecking order. Forgive people for not licking their arses

They bottle it year after year, last year being the main example. Skewed his initial tactics by playing reservedly when they'd been sweeping teams aside then didn't have an answer to Tuchel. He deserves praise for cleaning up domestically but criticism for not winning a champions league.

My point is two fold I suppose. Firstly that Pep has done a fantastic job at City and is clearly a very good manager. I'm not sure how anyone can seriously call the guy a fraud when you look at what hes won.

Secondly, if people criticise one set of people for doing the same thing as another set of people it's a double standard.

In the CL final, 2 great teams played, the best in this country and one won narrowly on the day. It happens. I don't really draw out massive themes based on 1 game.

 

[EverTheOptimist]

Again what on earth are you going on about? Are companies not allowed to sponsor teams now? What about Nike, ir Standard Chartered pumping money into Liverpool?

Liverpool and Citys wages are broadly comparable. Yet he has won far more than Klopp and have given him a couple of football lessons in his time (the 5-0 & 4-1 wins immediately spring to mind) in a way Klopp has never got close to replicating. And that is a broadly similar spend on wages.

The man is a phenomenal football manager, 2nd to probably Alex Ferguson in terms of what this country has seen. To argue any different is just pure churlishness.

Unlikely Klopp and Ferguson, he also seems a pretty decent guy to boot. Stood up for the Catalonians in the independence referendum etc.

Stood up for Catalonians while working for a Human rights abusing state.

Such a humanitarian is Pep.

 

[EverTheOptimist]

If all these managers are so much better tha Pep, why has he won more trophies than them?

Hes years younger than Klopp, but has won 26 trophies to Klopps 7. It's not even close.

If Pep is a fraud, what does it say about everyone else? Why does he have the record for the most points in a season?

And when they surrendered the league title, they came 2nd, with over 80 points.

In short, yet more posts filled with complete stupidity I'm afraid.

Why has he won more, because he went to the best club side this century with Messi the greatest player ever, Xavi, Puyol, Pique, Xavi, Iniesta E'too, Busquets, Alves already there when he joined, did exactly the same thing Frank Rijakaard and Luis Enrique did, nothing to shout about really with that insane talent of peak Messi/Iniesta/Xavi era Barcelona

Then went to Bayern Munich again the treble holders, and couldn't even do what the great Jupp Heynkes did at Bayern (who won the CL with 2 clubs some thing pep hasn't done yet), they went backwards under Pep, got battered in consecutive season by Real and Barca , the fans hated the sterile over possession football compared to the high energy exciting brand of football under the Heynkes.

Then he goes to City the richest team in the world owned by a petro dollar state, doing the same things Pellegrini and Mancini did, again not hard to win trophies when you are City manager with that backing when you have KDB, Yaya, Silva Fernandinho Kompany Aguero already there.

Like i said and it's opinions, you have yours and i have mine but Pep is not the best manager in the world IMHO, i named 5 or 6 who are just as or better than him who have done far more impressive work.

An example, Conte went to Chelsea the same summer as Pep went to City, the Chelsea side the previous season finished outside the top 10, Conte with not much spending wins a double and Pep is trophyless and qualified for the CL on the last day, Pep goes into the summer spending £250 million on Stones, Laporte, Ederson, Jesus, Danilo etc because it's what Pep can only do.

Zidane, Tuchel, Klopp, Conte, Emery, Mancini, the last 10 years have done far more impressive jobs.

That is why he's won whatever how many trophies he's won, the managers i listed would have won them as well with that outrageous backing and going into clubs with established winning cores.

 

[catcherintherye]

Stood up for Catalonians while working for a Human rights abusing state.

Such a humanitarian is Pep.

Well he's not is he? He works for a football club.

For a clearly intelligent and thoughtful guy, you are really saying a lot of ridiculous things here mate.

 

[Mat70s]

How about:

Guardiola isn’t a fraud. Far from it. The richer clubs hire him as he delivers trophies, which can’t be argued with. They’re not hiring Tony Pulis for these roles. He’s been hugely influential on the tactical shift in the game and how players prepare and train. He’s a big figure in modern football - not close to being a fraud.

For the purposes of balance, he’s not proven he can achieve such heights when faced with more traditional obstacles that many other managers do. He’s also made some odd mistakes with City in the CL. Furthermore, his transfer recruitment is sketchy - but that kind of doesn’t matter as he’s never been financially constrained.

On balance a brilliant manager - churlish to suggest otherwise.

 

[EverTheOptimist]

Well he's not is he? He works for a football club.

For a clearly intelligent and thoughtful guy, you are really saying a lot of ridiculous things here mate.

Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, often referred to as Sheikh Mansour, is an Emirati politician who is the deputy prime minister of the United Arab Emirates, minister of presidential affairs, billionaire and member of the royal family of Abu Dhabi.

Hmmmm what country are these companies from that pay City £300 million a year, Etihad, Etisalat, Aabar, AbuDhabiTourism.

4 companies with Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, often referred to as Sheikh Mansour, is an Emirati politician who is the deputy prime minister of the United Arab Emirates, minister of presidential affairs, billionaire and member of the royal family of Abu Dhabi, as the chief board member of said companies. lol

 

[catcherintherye]

Why has he won more, because he went to the best club side this century with Messi the greatest player ever, Xavi, Puyol, Pique, Xavi, Iniesta E'too, Busquets, Alves already there when he joined, did exactly the same thing Frank Rijakaard and Luis Enrique did, nothing to shout about really with that insane talent of peak Messi/Iniesta/Xavi era Barcelona

Then went to Bayern Munich again the treble holders, and couldn't even do what the great Jupp Heynkes did at Bayern (who won the CL with 2 clubs some thing pep hasn't done yet), they went backwards under Pep, got battered in consecutive season by Real and Barca , the fans hated the sterile over possession football compared to the high energy exciting brand of football under the Heynkes.

Then he goes to City the richest team in the world owned by a petro dollar state, doing the same things Pellegrini and Mancini did, again not hard to win trophies when you are City manager with that backing when you have KDB, Yaya, Silva Fernandinho Kompany Aguero already there.

Like i said and it's opinions, you have yours and i have mine but Pep is not the best manager in the world IMHO, i named 5 or 6 who are just as or better than him who have done far more impressive work.

An example, Conte went to Chelsea the same summer as Pep went to City, the Chelsea side the previous season finished outside the top 10, Conte with not much spending wins a double and Pep is trophyless and qualified for the CL on the last day, Pep goes into the summer spending £250 million on Stones, Laporte, Ederson, Jesus, Danilo etc because it's what Pep can only do.

Zidane, Tuchel, Klopp, Conte, Emery, Mancini, the last 10 years have done far more impressive jobs.

That is why he's won whatever how many trophies he's won, the managers i listed would have won them as well with that outrageous backing and going into clubs with established winning cores.

But just being at those clubs, never mind surviving at those clubs is not easy is it? Most go within a year. He has stayed as long as he has wanted at each, because pretty much every season he wins trophies (multiple).

When he went to Barcelona they were not the best team on the planet either. Relatively speaking, they were in a bit of a mess. The foundations he laid, from the B team through have given them the foundation to build upon. He won the CL with a team with 8 or 9 academy graduates playing for them. This is almost unheard of. I can't think of another manager who has done that.

Bayern, yes undoubtedly the most successful team in Germany, but in the years previously Klopp's Dortmund had taken their place a bit. He completely dominated Klopp's Dortmund and the rest of the competition.

Then the Premier League, when everyone fancied Mourinho's United to be better than them, not only did they outdo United and Conte's Chelsea, but did so with utter domination. He has broken the points record, then broke his own points record again. This alongside winning countless other trophies.

I mean I like Unai Emery, he's a good manager, but what has he done to be mentioned in the same breath as Pep? When he came to England he took Arsenal backwards from where Wenger had them. I could go through each one and clearly all of them have managed top teams, and none have won the trophies Pep has.

It's all well and good people having different opinions, but calling him a "fraud" just seems ludicrous to me. It would mean every other manager in the history of football aside from Alex Ferguson is also a fraud as they won less than him.

 

[catcherintherye]

Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, often referred to as Sheikh Mansour, is an Emirati politician who is the deputy prime minister of the United Arab Emirates, minister of presidential affairs, billionaire and member of the royal family of Abu Dhabi.

Hmmmm what country are these companies from that pay City £300 million a year, Etihad, Etisalat, Aabar, AbuDhabiTourism.

4 companies with Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, often referred to as Sheikh Mansour, is an Emirati politician who is the deputy prime minister of the United Arab Emirates, minister of presidential affairs, billionaire and member of the royal family of Abu Dhabi, as the chief board member of said companies. lol

You understand that politicians sit on boards of companies, and they are separate entities? While it's quite an unpalatable part of public life it is not fundamentally uncommon, and nobody would make the claim they are the same entity.

We are escaping down a rabbit hole here. A country does not employ Pep Guardiola. A court has established this.

As for the countries involved, just because a company resides in a certain territory does not mean that entire country are sponsoring them. Are Liverpool sponsored by America because of Standard Chartered or Nike?

Come on, I'll say it again, you're a bright guy but what you are saying is completely stupid. You're capable of debating in a far more intelligent way than the above.

 

[PaddyJames]

My point is two fold I suppose. Firstly that Pep has done a fantastic job at City and is clearly a very good manager. I'm not sure how anyone can seriously call the guy a fraud when you look at what hes won.

Secondly, if people criticise one set of people for doing the same thing as another set of people it's a double standard.

In the CL final, 2 great teams played, the best in this country and one won narrowly on the day. It happens. I don't really draw out massive themes based on 1 game.

How many other teams in the PL have a net spend over a billion quid in the last 10 years and have yet to win the champions league?

I'll wait.

 

[stony]

Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, often referred to as Sheikh Mansour, is an Emirati politician who is the deputy prime minister of the United Arab Emirates, minister of presidential affairs, billionaire and member of the royal family of Abu Dhabi.

Hmmmm what country are these companies from that pay City £300 million a year, Etihad, Etisalat, Aabar, AbuDhabiTourism.

4 companies with Mansour bin Zayed bin Sultan bin Zayed bin Khalifa Al Nahyan, often referred to as Sheikh Mansour, is an Emirati politician who is the deputy prime minister of the United Arab Emirates, minister of presidential affairs, billionaire and member of the royal family of Abu Dhabi, as the chief board member of said companies. lol

can you cry a bit harder please mate, I'm almost on the vinegar stroke

 

[catcherintherye]

can you cry a bit harder please mate, I'm almost on the vinegar stroke

Can I ask, do most City fans hate Pep for not winning the CL, or love him for the multiple trophies?

 

[catcherintherye]

How many other teams in the PL have a net spend over a billion quid in the last 10 years and have yet to win the champions league?

I'll wait.

I can't think of many to be fair. They have won lots of other trophies though haven't they?

Aside from that, would it make what City have done any difference if they actually won a CL? Surely if your objection is to teams spending money, it doesn't make it any better or worse if they do or don't win trophies?

I understand the frustration towards City too. I felt it for a long time when I was younger, but then I realised there will always be a side who spends more than everyone else and it's just wasted anger. If it's not City it will be United. If it's not United it will be Chelsea. If it's not Chelsea it will be Liverpool. If it's not them it will be Arsenal or Spurs, or Villa or us. Maybe I've become cynical as I've got older, but I just can't get riled about it, or see it as a problem that only came about when Sheikh Mansour rocked up.

 

[stony]

Can I ask, do most City fans hate Pep for not winning the CL, or love him for the multiple trophies?

Best manager in the world imo and most if not all City fans love him. Nearly everyone agrees he's messed up in a couple of big games, but apart from that his record is impeccable. Still wouldn't swap him for anyone else. However, the odd few would rather have Mancini. They'd have to be odd too. I loved Mancini and will forever be grateful to the man who tore than banner down, but he is nowhere near as good a manager as Pep.

 

[catcherintherye]

Best manager in the world imo and most if not all City fans love him. Nearly everyone agrees he's messed up in a couple of big games, but apart from that his record is impeccable. Still wouldn't swap him for anyone else. However, the odd few would rather have Mancini. They'd have to be odd too. I loved Mancini and will forever be grateful to the man who tore than banner down, but he is nowhere near as good a manager as Pep.

Interesting as a City fan who has seen both, you and most City fans would hold Pep as far above Mancini (no doubt an excellent manager too)?

And it is fair to say, most City fans see the positive of winning 10 trophies in 5 years over the negative of not winning the CL? Would you say that was a fair position?

 

[stony]

Interesting as a City fan who has seen both, you and most City fans would hold Pep as far above Mancini (no doubt an excellent manager too)?

And it is fair to say, most City fans see the positive of winning 10 trophies in 5 years over the negative of not winning the CL? Would you say that was a fair position?

It say it's spot on. I'd add that Mancini had what felt like a real understanding and connection to the fans. Pep on the other hand has a real understanding and connection with the players.