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Transfer Rumour ISCO

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Lanolin said:
I agree with you to a point. I've been saying in another thread, you can't go out and sign a load of 28/29 year olds and then say it's going to take time for things to come good. If it's going to take time to come good then you just sign younger players, it's basics. So I agree that if we were to add Isco to the likes of James, Allan and Doucoure, there has to be a significant and speedy improvement, otherwise it's just a massive waste of money.

As I said though, I don't think it's necessarily a bad strategy in the long run if you do get those short term gains. You can't only buy older players, but again, i'd happily say bring in older players with star quality if you can surround them with younger players in the less glamorous roles. It's not like we have an ageing squad in general, and we have brought in players with a view to the long term too. I didn't mean star quality as in famous, I meant in terms of matchwinners. Buying 21/22 year olds who are ready to come into the PL and win you matches straight away is going to be very expensive, so if it works, buying the likes of Isco and James could be a good way to start us on the path where it's a lot easier for us to attract those types. It's obviously all hinging on that if though.
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All very true,

The one thing I'll say is I think Ancelotti has really not fallen into this "it will take time" stuff. He is consistent at least. On a number of points, in different ways, he has said it needsto work, and really it needs to work this season. He's commented that he wants CL this season. Thats his focus. It's a very different minsdet to what we are used too.

I know you are quite critical of Doucoure (I am not as it happens, I quite like him) however your point is correct to the standards he should be held too. This is not a guy who's 20. He's not even 22/23 like a lot of our players. He's not getting any better and as you say, the expectation has to be for him to be consisting winning the midfield battle most weeks. Thats the expectation the manager has, and ultimately we should have.

We sort of saw a similar pattern with Sigurdsson. He never really got any better. When you are late 20's, you're not going to really. Obviously though, for players like Isco and James they arejust so far ahead of our existing players, it doesn't matter.
 

catcherintherye said:
All very true,

The one thing I'll say is I think Ancelotti has really not fallen into this "it will take time" stuff. He is consistent at least. On a number of points, in different ways, he has said it needsto work, and really it needs to work this season. He's commented that he wants CL this season. Thats his focus. It's a very different minsdet to what we are used too.

I know you are quite critical of Doucoure (I am not as it happens, I quite like him) however your point is correct to the standards he should be held too. This is not a guy who's 20. He's not even 22/23 like a lot of our players. He's not getting any better and as you say, the expectation has to be for him to be consisting winning the midfield battle most weeks. Thats the expectation the manager has, and ultimately we should have.

We sort of saw a similar pattern with Sigurdsson. He never really got any better. When you are late 20's, you're not going to really. Obviously though, for players like Isco and James they arejust so far ahead of our existing players, it doesn't matter.
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Yep, agreed.

I wouldn't say I was critical of Doucoure. Or if I am I don't really mean to be. I think he's fine, alright, decent, whatever you want to call it. I just don't think he's any better than that. Personally I'd rather we'd found a bit more value in the market than bring him in, but I don't hate him or anything (as a player I mean, obviously I don't hate him as a person). I feel like some people think he's something he's not though; there's a good post by @Egil Olsen about it in the Doucoure thread which sums up my feelings pretty well.
 
Lanolin said:
Yep, agreed.

I wouldn't say I was critical of Doucoure. Or if I am I don't really mean to be. I think he's fine, alright, decent, whatever you want to call it. I just don't think he's any better than that. Personally I'd rather we'd found a bit more value in the market than bring him in, but I don't hate him or anything (as a player I mean, obviously I don't hate him as a person). I feel like some people think he's something he's not though; there's a good post by @Egil Olsen about it in the Doucoure thread which sums up my feelings pretty well.
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I've given some thoughts on Doucoure in the thread. For the benefit of this thread though, there is an advantage to bringing in an Isco, but as you say we really need them hitting the ground running quickly.

Thinking back,Joe Royle did something similar to this. Just went and bought players,in their prime who were better than what we had. Short, Speed, Kanchelskis, Barmby (I appreciate he was a bit younger). The issue you have is really when the money runs out or when players begin to age. I mean in defence of Royle a lot of that was that he inherited an older squad, and in fairness money theoretically won't run out as it did under Johnson. In a parallel universe somewhere, Parkinson doesn't get injured, we sign Martyn/Schwartzer, Ferguson stays fit and we sign Flo and the momentum keeps building. Thats the 51 million dollar question though, is that approach inherently flawed, or is it flawed if done badly or bad luck sets in?
 
toffee-boy said:
did he say that it was bs? or was it more along the lines of great players, but play for different clubs so can't comment?
Click to expand...

I don't think he used the term BS, but I think he distnced from the reports and said it wasn't something we were looking at.

If we know anything from Brands, he will be striking a hard bargain on any players linked. He will likely have instructed the manager not to say anything.
 

Lanolin said:
I agree with you to a point. I've been saying in another thread, you can't go out and sign a load of 28/29 year olds and then say it's going to take time for things to come good. If it's going to take time to come good then you just sign younger players, it's basics. So I agree that if we were to add Isco to the likes of James, Allan and Doucoure, there has to be a significant and speedy improvement, otherwise it's just a massive waste of money.

As I said though, I don't think it's necessarily a bad strategy in the long run if you do get those short term gains. You can't only buy older players, but again, i'd happily say bring in older players with star quality if you can surround them with younger players in the less glamorous roles. It's not like we have an ageing squad in general, and we have brought in players with a view to the long term too. I didn't mean star quality as in famous, I meant in terms of matchwinners. Buying 21/22 year olds who are ready to come into the PL and win you matches straight away is going to be very expensive, so if it works, buying the likes of Isco and James could be a good way to start us on the path where it's a lot easier for us to attract those types. It's obviously all hinging on that if though.
Click to expand...

agree but we need to sign quality 28/29 year olds like james, allan and doucoure (maybe isco too) so we can bomb out the absolutely dire 28/29 year olds we have in the squad at present like sigurdsson, tosun, bernard.
they shouldn't be playing alongside them.
 

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