Jimmy Johnstone - the greatest player ever from Britain?

[the golden visionary]

Gifted but plied his trade in a league filled with donkeys. Most gifted? No. Too many names to list.

In that era scottish football was easily on a par with the rest of Europe

 

[PITA]

They wouldn't survive the first tackle.

They might but can you imagine how loud the scream would be?

 

[PSB1]

In that era scottish football was easily on a par with the rest of Europe

And we know this how?

 

[PSB1]

Everton got more top flight points in the 60s than any other team si I think we were a pretty good yard stick. And Dunfermline also beat Valencia 6-2.
As for the old firm domination, yes they dominated but in the same way Madrid and Barcelona dominate in Spain while the likes of Atlético, Sevilla and Valencia have done well in Europe with teams like Bilbao, and even Español and Alavés getting to UEFA cup finales. Showing strength in depth.
I'm not saying Johnstone was the best player to come out of Britain, just that it's too easy to dismiss him due to playing in a poor quality league when the level of Scottish football was infinitely higher back them.

No idea about the history of the Spanish league.

We were very competitive for all bar 2 of the seasons in the sixties, as you say. I wonder if the Dunfermline result (I didn't go to either game) was as much due to the fact that they had a genius manager in Stein and that we were complacent.

Opinions will doubtless differ but given that, very likely, nobody on this site has experience of Scots football in the fifties / sixties, perhaps most of what we say is hot air.

 

[the golden visionary]

And we know this how?

Whats the point in even answering , youve dismissed all opinion as hot air.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

And we know this how?

I suppose the same way we judge leagues nowadays. Comparing relative success in European competition.

 

[the sniderman]

I say Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) as George Best being from Northern Ireland I think he’s the most gifted from the UK/Ireland. Jimmy Johnstone I’ve only quite recently discovered. His ability is stunning. He did things that are Messi-esque. The close ball control, the effortless ability to glide past people with a drop of the shoulder (left or right). He verged on piss taking it’s comical. Watched this yesterday and found myself laughing at the stuff he was doing. I find it hard to think of a more gifted player from Britain.

hello buddy that highlights reel was worse than gbmain he was playing against chain smoking stiffs he would not last 4 minutes in a non league game now.

 

[PSB1]

I suppose the same way we judge leagues nowadays. Comparing relative success in European competition.

Which is fair enough to a point. (Up to a point, Lord Copper!)

My overall view of the Celtic team that won the E C in '67 is that it was a team whose whole was greater than its parts, thanks to Stein. I've got a bit of a problem with any cup competition being used as a yardstick of quality: using Everton again, Shrewsbury, Oldham and Tranmere results might have us believe that the lower divisions are chocker with giants of th game).

If we had the benefit (@Golden visionary) of extensive footage of Scots league games, I could make a more informed judgement, but we don't. Far as I can rermember, you might get a 2 minute clip on the Beeb of a Scottish Cup Final or some other big event, but that was the lot apart from Pathe News - and again the coverage was sparse to say the least.

So I looked to international matches and results there between England and Scotland for the 26 games between 1950 - 1976 shows Scotland winning 5 of them. It isn't a perfect metric but it kinda suggests that with some highly notable exceptions, Scots players didn't really cut the mustard. No surprise there- bigger country, higher population produces more players of international class.

In the end, though it's a bit of fun, Best British players, centre halfs and the like are a waste of time because of the lack of impartial footage, so I apologise for wasting your time, Jamo!

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Which is fair enough to a point. (Up to a point, Lord Copper!)

My overall view of the Celtic team that won the E C in '67 is that it was a team whose whole was greater than its parts, thanks to Stein. I've got a bit of a problem with any cup competition being used as a yardstick of quality: using Everton again, Shrewsbury, Oldham and Tranmere results might have us believe that the lower divisions are chocker with giants of th game).

If we had the benefit (@Golden visionary) of extensive footage of Scots league games, I could make a more informed judgement, but we don't. Far as I can rermember, you might get a 2 minute clip on the Beeb of a Scottish Cup Final or some other big event, but that was the lot apart from Pathe News - and again the coverage was sparse to say the least.

So I looked to international matches and results there between England and Scotland for the 26 games between 1950 - 1976 shows Scotland winning 5 of them. It isn't a perfect metric but it kinda suggests that with some highly notable exceptions, Scots players didn't really cut the mustard. No surprise there- bigger country, higher population produces more players of international class.

In the end, though it's a bit of fun, Best British players, centre halfs and the like are a waste of time because of the lack of impartial footage, so I apologise for wasting your time, Jamo!

No probs P. I find the debate stimulating.

At that time, England was undoubtedly the most competitive league in the world. I've mentioned in other threads that in the first seven years of my life (65 to 72) there were 7 different champions. If you add the seven years prior to that there were 11 champions in 14 years.

Now, I agree, one off cup results or even a one off cup win is no measure of quality, but surely a team repeatedly doing well in a cup competition ie Ajax winning 3 European cups on the run, Benfica winning 2 and reaching several finals has to count for something. At that time both those teams were winning 2 or at most, 3 horse races in their domestic leagues.

We can only use results as a guide at the end of the day and based on that, After England, Spain and Italy, Scottish clubs were as competitive as those of any other league in Europe

 

[WA Toffee]

And we know this how?

Fortunately, there was a thing called European competitions, where the best teams from each league played against each other to see who was the best. During that time, Celtic won the European cup and got to another final, Rangers won the ECWC and other teams like hibs got to the later stages of the competitions.

That is how we know.

 

[WA Toffee]

hello buddy that highlights reel was worse than gbmain he was playing against chain smoking stiffs he would not last 4 minutes in a non league game now.

He died 15 years ago, but is probably still a better player than you

 

[KaiserEFC]

Back in my day all the players were drunk, it
was 15 woodbines not oranges at half time and every tackle made would break anybody born after 1975’s leg

 

[the sniderman]

He died 15 years ago, but is probably still a better player than you

and still much better at retorts than u buddy.

 

[the sniderman]

he was a bum playing against unhealthy dockers and postmen. the floppy fathers who can remember him pine because the world confuses them now and society does not allow them to sexually assault women or shout at the non white people anymore buddies.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

View attachment 122927
Back in my day all the players were drunk, it
was 15 woodbines not oranges at half time and every tackle made would break anybody born after 1975’s leg

Woodbines? You were lucky!! When I was a lad, all the players had to overdose on heroin just withstand the pain of the manager stamping on their ankles and knees for the fitness test.