2022/23 Jordan Pickford

[Sharpies volley]

Who are the top ones? Ederson, Allison, Lloris, Ramsdale, De Gea, Kepa? They’re the top 6 keepers and they’re absolute error ridden.

Ederson concedes pretty much every shot he faces, Allison’s distribution is woeful for a top keeper and he’s weak getting down to shots across his goal, Lloris is a walking car crash in goal. I actually think De Gea is the best of the lot and he’s had a few rough seasons in between his best form. Pickford really isn’t far away from some of that lot which considering we’re a bottom half team is pretty good. I wouldn’t swap him for some of the clowns at other bottom 14 clubs.

If this was the PL of Cech Van Der Sar Courtouis, Seaman, Schmeichal then I’d concede the point but the top keepers in this league are just as error prone as Pickford. None of them are ‘doing the basics right’

I'm sorry mate but apart from Lloris who is quite error prone I can't agree with you on the others. They do make mistakes but it's an exception, rather than the rule. Having said all that, I really couldn't give a monkeys about what other teams keepers do. They can make as many mistakes as they like as far as I'm concerned. I'm only bothered about us.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I'm sorry mate but apart from Lloris who is quite error prone I can't agree with you on the others. They do make mistakes but it's an exception, rather than the rule. Having said all that, I really couldn't give a monkeys about what other teams keepers do. They can make as many mistakes as they like as far as I'm concerned. I'm only bothered about us.

That’s the problem though. We’re judging Pickford against this mythical standard of the solid PL keeper who does all the basics right, makes few errors, and saves the shots he should save. This keeper doesn’t exist though. Even the top keepers are making so many errors all the time but you’re not seeing them whereas if Pickford makes a single mistake it just goes onto the agenda pile as evidence.

Allison has been caught doing cruyff turns, teed up two City goals in the same game, has flown out his area and taken his own defender out of play as the ball’s gone in. Pope handled a ball outside his area, dropped a pea roller straight to a German player to throw a game away for England. At one point De Gea was so bad he was letting shots through his body on a game by game basis. If Pickford did any of this stuff you’d want him run out the club. He’s really not that bad in comparison to his peers but his detractors keep comparing him to this mythical ‘solid’ keeper who just doesn’t exist.

Please point out which keeper we could have legitimately got at any point in the Moshiri period who does all the basics right, commands his area, catches crosses doesn’t make many errors, has good distribution, and saves the shots he should save. Who is this keeper?

 

[Shibbywiggles]

Pickford is boss and has been my favourite keeper in the league ever since he sorted his head under Carlo

 

[TheBigIguana]

That’s the problem though. We’re judging Pickford against this mythical standard of the solid PL keeper who does all the basics right, makes few errors, and saves the shots he should save. This keeper doesn’t exist though. Even the top keepers are making so many errors all the time but you’re not seeing them whereas if Pickford makes a single mistake it just goes onto the agenda pile as evidence.

Allison has been caught doing cruyff turns, teed up two City goals in the same game, has flown out his area and taken his own defender out of play as the ball’s gone in. Pope handled a ball outside his area, dropped a pea roller straight to a German player to throw a game away for England. At one point De Gea was so bad he was letting shots through his body on a game by game basis. If Pickford did any of this stuff you’d want him run out the club. He’s really not that bad in comparison to his peers but his detractors keep comparing him to this mythical ‘solid’ keeper who just doesn’t exist.

Please point out which keeper we could have legitimately got at any point in the Moshiri period who does all the basics right, commands his area, catches crosses doesn’t make many errors, has good distribution, and saves the shots he should save. Who is this keeper?

Bournemouth got Neto in on a free. Leno was 3m for Fulham. I'm not really here to argue whether they're definitely better or worse than Pickford so much as the "how could we possibly replace him?" thing you love to do isn't a real argument. Plenty of useful players in every position at reasonable prices.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Bournemouth got Neto in on a free. Leno was 3m for Fulham. I'm not really here to argue whether they're definitely better or worse than Pickford so much as the "how could we possibly replace him?" thing you love to do isn't a real argument. Plenty of useful players in every position at reasonable prices.

It’s not the ‘how can we possibly replace him’ argument, but instead it’s the question of who can we get who is better and we could attract?

If someone wants to argue that we should sell Pickford and get in a keeper like Leno or Neto to spend the money elsewhere then I could possibly buy that. Although there’s a logical fallacy in there that it would be dependent on us selling Pickford for a high fee (why would we get this fee if he’s not very good)

But this argument that he’s rubbish and we could easily replace him. If the counterpoints to that are the Bournemouth keeper and Leno then I’d rather just keep Pickford by an absolute mile.

 

[derek duvall]

That’s the problem though. We’re judging Pickford against this mythical standard of the solid PL keeper who does all the basics right, makes few errors, and saves the shots he should save. This keeper doesn’t exist though. Even the top keepers are making so many errors all the time but you’re not seeing them whereas if Pickford makes a single mistake it just goes onto the agenda pile as evidence.

Allison has been caught doing cruyff turns, teed up two City goals in the same game, has flown out his area and taken his own defender out of play as the ball’s gone in. Pope handled a ball outside his area, dropped a pea roller straight to a German player to throw a game away for England. At one point De Gea was so bad he was letting shots through his body on a game by game basis. If Pickford did any of this stuff you’d want him run out the club. He’s really not that bad in comparison to his peers but his detractors keep comparing him to this mythical ‘solid’ keeper who just doesn’t exist.

Please point out which keeper we could have legitimately got at any point in the Moshiri period who does all the basics right, commands his area, catches crosses doesn’t make many errors, has good distribution, and saves the shots he should save. Who is this keeper?

So people are not allowed to call him out for poor performances or mistakes because other keepers make them?

 

[TheBigIguana]

It’s not the ‘how can we possibly replace him’ argument, but instead it’s the question of who can we get who is better and we could attract?

If someone wants to argue that we should sell Pickford and get in a keeper like Leno or Neto to spend the money elsewhere then I could possibly buy that. Although there’s a logical fallacy in there that it would be dependent on us selling Pickford for a high fee (why would we get this fee if he’s not very good)

But this argument that he’s rubbish and we could easily replace him. If the counterpoints to that are the Bournemouth keeper and Leno then I’d rather just keep Pickford by an absolute mile.

You can thank Gareth Southgate for that. I don't think he's that good but the perception is he is so you might get the fee you want on that.

I'd rather have a slightly worse keeper and 15m to spend than Pickford.

 

[Saint Domingo]

So people are not allowed to call him out for poor performances or mistakes because other keepers make them?

Absolutely. He has bad games, he had one against Liverpool, doesn’t make him a bad keeper over all though. Considering he was our player of the season last year and been pretty decent this year I don’t know why he attracts an inordinate amount of criticism from Everton fans when outfield players are making far more errors every single game and don’t get anything like the vitriol Pickford gets.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You can thank Gareth Southgate for that. I don't think he's that good but the perception is he is so you might get the fee you want on that.

I'd rather have a slightly worse keeper and 15m to spend than Pickford.

That’s clutching at straws and you know it. So a top club is going to buy him for a big fee based off perception just because the England manager is also as deluded as them and picked him?

If a big fee comes in for him for a top club to make him their number 1 it’s because he’s a good keeper.

If this happens then yes it would be good to find a decent keeper at a bargain and spend the money elsewhere.

Can’t wait for this perfect keeper we’re going to get who is good at everything and we get him for a snip.

 

[TheBigIguana]

That’s clutching at straws and you know it. So a top club is going to buy him for a big fee based off perception just because the England manager is also as deluded as them and picked him?

If a big fee comes in for him for a top club to make him their number 1 it’s because he’s a good keeper.

If this happens then yes it would be good to find a decent keeper at a bargain and spend the money elsewhere.

Can’t wait for this perfect keeper we’re going to get who is good at everything and we get him for a snip.

This literally just happened with Richarlison though. If he's Peruvian Spurs aren't paying 50m for him.

I just told you I wanted a worse keeper (if that's what it has to be, we should still try to sign someone good) and the money so why are you talking about perfect? No one is saying that. Pickford just doesn't move the needle as much as you think and we need the money to buy guys who will move it.

 

[Lanolin]

I'm sorry mate but apart from Lloris who is quite error prone I can't agree with you on the others. They do make mistakes but it's an exception, rather than the rule. Having said all that, I really couldn't give a monkeys about what other teams keepers do. They can make as many mistakes as they like as far as I'm concerned. I'm only bothered about us.

The performance of others has to be taken into account though, because if you’re not judging him relatively you’re not judging him fairly. If he makes 10 errors leading to goals then that’s bad for us, but if the average keeper makes 15 then you can’t say he’s not good enough because he’d be loads better than most. He’s a long way from perfect and I’d have no issue at all with him going, but he is consistently judged very harshly for some reason.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Lads we need to talk about how our goalkeeper isn't actually that good.

Lads, he just isn't that great yano lads.

Lads?

 

[maccavennie]

True but I think it’s premier league clubs in general not just Everton once clubs started paying players 200k plus think that’s brought the wages of average players up also and the money involved with the premier league now it’s obvious players want a share of that so demands go up. They’re spoilt being paid well for something they love doing and what most of us would do for a 100th of what they earn they get too much too soon and believe they are superstars living the superstar lifestyle when in reality (Gordon) for example has only just had a full season of games, then you have the other players who lose interest at 25/26 because they haven’t had to work another day in their lives for the last 4 years unfortunately the games been ruined by money.

I agree wages have gone up mate but what I'm saying is the standard and quality of our football is akin to a Championship squad so I'd expect them to be on Championship wages.

Can you imagine if we'd proceeded with tying Gordon, Iwobi and Pickford to 100k a week wages and got relegated. I'm all for paying players wages that reflect their performance on the pitch (consistent performances and not the odd one here and there) so I've all got them down as earning £450pw currently with £100 bonus for a win, £50 for a clean sheet, £75 if you score.

 

[Saint Domingo]

This literally just happened with Richarlison though. If he's Peruvian Spurs aren't paying 50m for him.

I just told you I wanted a worse keeper (if that's what it has to be, we should still try to sign someone good) and the money so why are you talking about perfect? No one is saying that. Pickford just doesn't move the needle as much as you think and we need the money to buy guys who will move it.

If he’s as bad as you keep making him out to be then no one will buy him so you dont have an argument.

If he was Peruvian Spurs wouldn’t buy Richarlison….brilliant

 

[blueblue]

Every keeper makes mistakes, the better the keeper is the fewer mistakes they make.

Given the team Pickford is playing in I think he makes few mistakes and we are lucky to have him.

For instance, in a better team the first Liverpool goal would not have even got over the half way line without a foul being committed and a free given away.