Transfer Rumour Joshua Zirkzee

[riddick]

1. "Zirkzee shouldn't sign for Everton, we can't develop players - look at Moise Kean"
2. "But what about Calvert-Lewin?"
1. "All luck that lad, we didn't have anyone else"

• Luck;
  success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

The actions from Brands were very clear;

December 2018



These comments were repeated - consistently over a prolonged period.

Everton's Director of Football, directed there to be no big players coming in who'd limit Calvert-Lewin's chances;

August 2019;



To then say Everton only developed Calvert-Lewin because there was nobody else, and attribute it to luck is a nonsense and... dim.

Luck would be 2 first team strikers getting injured with the window closed and him being given an opportunity by chance, rather than action.

Calvert-Lewin had ability. Needed time to develop.
Brands saw it. Ensured he had that time and opportunity to do just that.

Everton, and Brands deserve enormous credit for developing Calvert-Lewin.

It's really not very difficult to understand.

Mate, DCL scored 10 goals in 2 years in about 60 matches. If you think that the team was saying "oh, that's fine, he'll score AAAANNY day now" that's absurd. You don't spend 30m on a striker if you have total confidence that DCL is going to turn it around.

 

[Lanolin]

My issue with this is the compulsory option which comes with the loan. I don't mind there being an option to buy but we must be able to have some control over whether we exercise that option or not. The player could be a complete flop or a total bad'un. Maybe if it were linked to minutes played similar to the deal we had with Watford over Cleverley. On the positive side the price doesn't seem extortionate for a promising teenager.

I would imagine we're happy to buy him but don't have the funds/ffp wiggle room to do it, and so are loaning him on the basis that we'll buy him in the summer, rather than loaning him because we're not sure if we want to buy. It's no different to it being a permanent deal in that sense, you just have to have done enough homework to be confident he won't flop or be a total bad'un.

 

[catcherintherye]

I would imagine we're happy to buy him but don't have the funds/ffp wiggle room to do it, and so are loaning him on the basis that we'll buy him in the summer, rather than loaning him because we're not sure if we want to buy. It's no different to it being a permanent deal in that sense, you just have to have done enough homework to be confident he won't flop or be a total bad'un.

Thats the key differentiator really isn't it, between havign an option or it's compulsary.

If that is the key deciding factor in the deal it may be tricky. As for Everton having a compulsary option, therein essentially committing to buy him but paying a bit later is quite different to having someone on trial and having a think.

In all honesty I don't know enough about the player either way to make a call on whether we should accept a compulsary option.

 

[Goat]

Mate, DCL scored 10 goals in 2 years in about 60 matches. If you think that the team was saying "oh, that's fine, he'll score AAAANNY day now" that's absurd. You don't spend 30m on a striker if you have total confidence that DCL is going to turn it around.

Yes you do.

When hes your only Striker.

Everybody was complaining that we didn't replace Lukaku, Brands had faith in DCL.

At the point we signed Tosun he was our only Striker, so we signed another option, he flopped, so we did it again with Kean, who sat on the bench all season cos DCL blew up.

Now we at the same crossroads, DCL is our only Striker and possibly 1 of the best in the league.................

Marcel Brands has done it again.

 

[riddick]

Yes you do.

When hes your only Striker.

Everybody was complaining that we didn't replace Lukaku, Brands had faith in DCL.

At the point we signed Tosun he was our only Striker, so we signed another option, he flopped, so we did it again with Kean, who sat on the bench all season cos DCL blew up.

Now we at the same crossroads, DCL is our only Striker and possibly 1 of the best in the league.................

Marcel Brands has done it again.

So we spent 30m, our 3rd(?) highest ever transfer fee, on a backup striker? Come on.

And I'm not saying faith has not been paid back in full, just saying that you don't spend 27.5(correct amount) if you have full faith the striker, who had done very little scoring in the 2 previous years, would magically start scoring.

 

[blue to the bone]

Anyone else think this thread has gone slightly off topic !

 

[Tubey]

For me he'd be the perfect number two to DCL. Young, talented, potential, physical, low risk.

It may not work out - see Moise Kean for details - but we'll make that money back on him regardless - again, see Moise Kean for details.

If we didn't have DCL, we'd need to be looking at spending £30m+ for something more proven. But fortunately DCL is now proven to be a top striker, so the urgency in that position isn't as dramatic.

For me, we need this sort of solution up front, but much more urgent is the gaping hole that is right back, and arguably another option out wide if Bernard is being shipped out. The team chronically lacks pace.

 

[blulouie]

Well if we include anyone who has played even a game, our list is also going to be massive. Thats the point of filtering it down.

Of the respective lists, lets stick to lads who have played 51+ league starts. That's a meaningful number to show they have made more than a handful of appearances.

We have, Tom Davies (114), Barkley 150, Rodwell 85 (plus sold for 15m, when that was probabaly worth 25 ish now), Anichebe 131, Osman 352, Hibbert 265, Ball 121, Dunne 60 (plus a hefty fee), Cadamateri 93, Jeffers 67 (plus a huge fee back then), Rooney 98, Gordon 14 and counting.

I have ommitted some like Vaughan, despite him having 47 games (which is more than almost anyone on that list) as for me he doesn't count.

Thats nobody from Arnold to Gerrard for them as a comparison.

If we are to count anyone who has played just a handful of games for us I could goon, Eaton, Jevons, Beck, Farley, Milligan, Mcleod, Clarke, Hughes, Bidwell, Ledson, Walsh, Kenny, Connolly, Dowell, Jones etc etc. The reality is, in terms of meaningful players, there was a huge gap for them that lasted about 20 years.

Still say its pretty equal the amount that come through the respective academy's to mark it to the 1st team squad.
I think the outcome overlooked is we as a club have been pretty much rubbish for 20 years and not had the funds to buy our way, whereas they have had a lot of successs and backed by big money to bring in world class talent.

Obviously they have had the luxury of keeping the cream of their crop whereas we have played some of ours out of neccessity.
I mean does Hibbert or Osman get that many games for them , I think not.

But its been an interesting view on the accademy's production.

 

[Goat]

So we spent 30m, our 3rd(?) highest ever transfer fee, on a backup striker? Come on.

Who did we buy for 30m?

Tosun was 27m and Kean was 24m.

Do you agree that we currently lack a Striker?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Mate, DCL scored 10 goals in 2 years in about 60 matches. If you think that the team was saying "oh, that's fine, he'll score AAAANNY day now" that's absurd. You don't spend 30m on a striker if you have total confidence that DCL is going to turn it around.

Evidently, that was the approach. I've linked Brands' comments from 2018, the same comments were made in 2019 - which Calvert-Lewin commented on.

As for the 30m striker - Kean? - do you think Everton signed Moise Kean to lead the line week in, week out to replace/take the place of Calvert-Lewin?

Nope. That is why Calvert-Lewin was starting ahead of him from day one.

We still need another striker now, but Calvert-Lewin got his chances because the clubs director of football approach dictated that he did.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Who did we buy for 30m?

Tosun was 27m and Kean was 24m.

Do you agree that we currently lack a Striker?

And Tosun was Steve Walsh eh...

 

[Goat]

And Tosun was Steve Walsh eh...

Fella hasnt worked since he crapped the bed here.

 

[catcherintherye]

Still say its pretty equal the amount that come through the respective academy's to mark it to the 1st team squad.
I think the outcome overlooked is we as a club have been pretty much rubbish for 20 years and not had the funds to buy our way, whereas they have had a lot of successs and backed by big money to bring in world class talent.

Obviously they have had the luxury of keeping the cream of their crop whereas we have played some of ours out of neccessity.
I mean does Hibbert or Osman get that many games for them , I think not.

But its been an interesting view on the accademy's production.

Yes I agree with your latter point. What you really see is a reflection of where both teams were at really. Everton you get more exposure, but Liverpool you probably kick on more. Of the last 20 years, in terms of quality, it probably goes 1- Rooney, 2 Gerrard, 3 Arnold 4- Barkley.

However what is undoubtable, is in terms of local players being ready to have meaningful involvement, we have been streets ahead of them over the last 20+ years.

They close the gap in terms of buying players in- though to be fair we have also had some success in that regard. What's frustrating though, is people will count say Sterling as a vindication of Liverpools academy but not say Stones here.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Fella hasnt worked since he crapped the bed here.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I would imagine we're happy to buy him but don't have the funds/ffp wiggle room to do it, and so are loaning him on the basis that we'll buy him in the summer, rather than loaning him because we're not sure if we want to buy. It's no different to it being a permanent deal in that sense, you just have to have done enough homework to be confident he won't flop or be a total bad'un.

If that's the case I don't see why they're haggling over the price because Eu10m seems very reasonable.

Personally I think they've had a few issues with Kean as regards attitude and none football matters. This lad also comes with a bit of a reputation and maybe they want to take a closer look see before they commit. Couldn't blame them of that were the case.