Transfer Rumour Joshua Zirkzee

[davids]

I suggest you look up what the word lucky means mate.

If you think Everton's development of Calvert-Lewin is just down to luck, then you either haven't been paying attention or you don't know what the word luck means.

Lucky is obviously the wrong term,but in a way he was fortunate that at the time we didn't create much,so he wasn't missing sitters every week which at that time in his development would have been a disaster. If the Dutch lad has similar qualities a bit of insurance might be wise if some of the big boys come knocking for DCL.

 

[catcherintherye]

...I’m playing Devils Advocate to a certain extent, but it might be to Unsworth’s coaching credit that he managed to win that league against clubs with much richer recruitment policy. I remember Craig Short saying Everton provide the sternest test in PL2 because they play like a PL team.

I’m not defending the club, but that team played as a team which is some achievement for a group of lads competing for limited contracts.

it’s easy to criticise the coaches. Our continued failure to reach the latter stages of the FA Youth Cup is a bigger benchmark for me that we don’t have the quality of youngsters. It could be more of a recruitment issue than a coaching issue. Hopefully it’s cyclical and we’re due a good intake.

There's plenty to be critical of, and I include Unsworth in that, but sometimes it seems a little too harsh.

I watched the derby the other night, and some people made out they battered us. It was a 1-1 draw, both teams had chances to win etc. When you watch City play, or Chelsea they knock the ball about beautifully, yet very few break through into their first teams. I do think a lot of that is that when they move to the mens game, it's a completely different game. It's not a sterile training match environment.

There is in my mind a valid criticism, that post Moyes we have not been ruthless enough with young players, and I do include Unsworth as a part (not all) of that. He propagated the idea a whle back that we could keep the young team together and bring them all through, which was a big mistake to me. I suspect he was probably overly defensive of certain players and probably needed to be tough in letting them move on. You look at lads like Anthony Robinson, and it's been the best tihng to have happened to him. When you see players like Banningime, Pennington (and we've had a few) stuck at that level. It's not done anyone any good.

That being said, he didn't offer them the contracts and now they are here, we have to try and get them in the window to be sold or loaned. We need to be more ruthless and I'm glad that process has started. Moving forward, Unsworths job is to drive quality up across the academy, and develop them from 17/18-20 when they are with him. What happens after that is really nothing to do with him. If Tom Davies stagnates after he leaves the reserves, it's not a stick to beat him with etc.

In spite of what people say, the game V Liverpool the other night, only 1 team had players under the age of 18 playing, and it was us. Most players on both teams won't make it, but I'm glad some focus has gone into Onyango and that he is also playing in a competitive environment. He's starting to use his size more, but he needs to learn to become more aggressive wuth and without the ball, but he has an eye catching build. A mixture of competive games- treating u23's like it matters and training with the 1st team could help.

It's a shame Dobbin is injured, though Kouyate (who I felt looked livelier than Simms) and Simms are getting opportunities. So we will see what happens. As you say the dearth in quality has been from the 18's. It's been a long time since we got past the 1/4 finals of the FA Youth cup.

 

[Eggs]

There's plenty to be critical of, and I include Unsworth in that, but sometimes it seems a little too harsh.

I watched the derby the other night, and some people made out they battered us. It was a 1-1 draw, both teams had chances to win etc. When you watch City play, or Chelsea they knock the ball about beautifully, yet very few break through into their first teams. I do think a lot of that is that when they move to the mens game, it's a completely different game. It's not a sterile training match environment.

There is in my mind a valid criticism, that post Moyes we have not been ruthless enough with young players, and I do include Unsworth as a part (not all) of that. He propagated the idea a whle back that we could keep the young team together and bring them all through, which was a big mistake to me. I suspect he was probably overly defensive of certain players and probably needed to be tough in letting them move on. You look at lads like Anthony Robinson, and it's been the best tihng to have happened to him. When you see players like Banningime, Pennington (and we've had a few) stuck at that level. It's not done anyone any good.

That being said, he didn't offer them the contracts and now they are here, we have to try and get them in the window to be sold or loaned. We need to be more ruthless and I'm glad that process has started. Moving forward, Unsworths job is to drive quality up across the academy, and develop them from 17/18-20 when they are with him. What happens after that is really nothing to do with him. If Tom Davies stagnates after he leaves the reserves, it's not a stick to beat him with etc.

In spite of what people say, the game V Liverpool the other night, only 1 team had players under the age of 18 playing, and it was us. Most players on both teams won't make it, but I'm glad some focus has gone into Onyango and that he is also playing in a competitive environment. He's starting to use his size more, but he needs to learn to become more aggressive wuth and without the ball, but he has an eye catching build. A mixture of competive games- treating u23's like it matters and training with the 1st team could help.

It's a shame Dobbin is injured, though Kouyate (who I felt looked livelier than Simms) and Simms are getting opportunities. So we will see what happens. As you say the dearth in quality has been from the 18's. It's been a long time since we got past the 1/4 finals of the FA Youth cup.

....i absolutely agree that too many youngsters were given lengthy contracts meaning they became difficult to shift. That is lots to do with club policy & strategy. It does seem to have changed since Steve Walsh left and young professionals are now on 12 or 24 month contracts.

The Manager and DoF will be the biggest influence on awarding of contracts based on who they want in the first team set-up.

Anyway, we digress as this is the Zirkzee thread. Not sure I mentioned this, but having your own thread is the kiss of death.

 

[Terrarian]

Indeed, yet you still seem to be struggling with that, and even reading.... If you're going to respond to posts, you should probably read them properly first. Please feel free to do so before bothering to respond to this.

Yeah, it's all a bit of a mystery, and far from what I think most people expected/felt we were promised when he arrived.



DCL's been good this season, very good at the start, but can we stop pretending like he's the finished article please. He's still got plenty to learn, and is not one of the best forwards in the prem.

I've given up, they've taken my post completely out of context and won't listen to what i am saying

 

[Eggs]

I've given up, they've taken my post completely out of context and won't listen to what i am saying

...who said that?

 

[catcherintherye]

....i absolutely agree that too many youngsters were given lengthy contracts meaning they became difficult to shift. That is lots to do with club policy & strategy. It does seem to have changed since Steve Walsh left and young professionals are now on 12 or 24 month contracts.

The Manager and DoF will be the biggest influence on awarding of contracts based on who they want in the first team set-up.

Anyway, we digress as this is the Zirkzee thread. Not sure I mentioned this, but having your own thread is the kiss of death.

I think where it circles back to Zirkzee, is there are limits to what can be expected from just lads from in and around the area. We could probably do a bit better but for the most prt we actually do ok. I put a list up recently of players who've made 50+ league appearances from Everton and Liverpool in the last 20 years and Everton had about 12 players between Gerrard and Arnold for them.

We have to try to be more even more competitive for signings like Zirkzee. Improving the local talent pool is important, and yes we can get better but there are limits. We have fared well bringing younger players in to bolster it. If this one doesn't come over the line fine, but it's good to see we are trying (same with it appears Caicedo before).

 

[Barnfred 55]

As far as I can see the report you were quoting didn't mention it being a compulsory purchase so I thought we were just talking generally about that possibility. I wasn't disagreeing with you, just saying why they may not be bothered about the purchase being compulsory if that turned out to be the case. Surely though, if the price is fair then the price is fair? I mean, why would be concerned about committing to signing him if the price is a fair one? It would only be an issue if the price was more than we thought he was actually worth I would have thought.

Not sure where but I've definitely seen an article posted in this forum, either in this thread or the transfer window thread, that referred to a compulsory purchase.

The price, in my opinion, is fair based on pure footballing terms. But as I mentioned earlier, I believe we may want to see the lad close up first to judge his character, his commitment, and his off the field activities, before committing the club. I don't have a problem with that if it is indeed the case. It might not be.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I think the fee for Tosun was wrong at the time it was announced in the media. From what i remember, it was something like €22mil which was about £18mil...there were a few posts about it.

Kean was £22mil rising to £27mil.







Meant to be €3mil loan fee then €10mil obligation to buy so €13mil.

That starts getting into the 'risky' bracket doesnt it...

If it was an option to buy Id be all for it but that fee seems quite high. Even though hes been highly rated for years and initially looked ace for Bayern, it seems like hes not broken through fully this season.

Theres a lot of youth players who score bundles of goals (Simms) and then slot a few in a top side (Macheda at United) then just keep dropping down the leagues.

I think the fee is quite high myself. His profile though seems to be ideal.




Seems to be considered similar to Hooijdonk

Just the 3m loan fee in itself is a joke, for effectively 4 months for a teenager out of favour. You'd think Bayern would be made up for one of their young players to be getting experience in the Premier.

 

[Zatara]

Just the 3m loan fee in itself is a joke, for effectively 4 months for a teenager out of favour. You'd think Bayern would be made up for one of their young players to be getting experience in the Premier.

Id say they just want €13mil for him but expect €3mil upfront.

My guess is that if he came and flopped and it was just a loan with an option to buy then his fee would take a hit so theyre trying to agree a number now and were trying to spread out the payments.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Indeed, yet you still seem to be struggling with that, and even reading.... If you're going to respond to posts, you should probably read them properly first. Please feel free to do so before bothering to respond to this.

Yeah, it's all a bit of a mystery, and far from what I think most people expected/felt we were promised when he arrived.



DCL's been good this season, very good at the start, but can we stop pretending like he's the finished article please. He's still got plenty to learn, and is not one of the best forwards in the prem.

Phil? Phil? Is that you?

I'm a bit worried Zat's taken over your account.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Id say they just want €13mil for him but expect €3mil upfront.

My guess is that if he came and flopped and it was just a loan with an option to buy then his fee would take a hit so theyre trying to agree a number now and were trying to spread out the payments.

Maybe. I still don't like the obligation bit though.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

...I’m playing Devils Advocate to a certain extent, but it might be to Unsworth’s coaching credit that he managed to win that league against clubs with much richer recruitment policy. I remember Craig Short saying Everton provide the sternest test in PL2 because they play like a PL team.

I’m not defending the club, but that team played as a team which is some achievement for a group of lads competing for limited contracts.

it’s easy to criticise the coaches. Our continued failure to reach the latter stages of the FA Youth Cup is a bigger benchmark for me that we don’t have the quality of youngsters. It could be more of a recruitment issue than a coaching issue. Hopefully it’s cyclical and we’re due a good intake.

Not for me, unsworth is
Totally out of his depth. If he had anything about him, surely he would have tried his hand at managing a league club. I suppose he’s on a nice contract at Everton and is basically bullet proof.
It’s happy days for him.

I think you will find, that the last league win,
We regularly played older players. And had a much higher average age than the other so called big clubs.

The first league win, With the likes of Kenny, Connolly, Robinson, Davies, Williams, dowell. Ledson if he was still here, Walsh, Charsley, dyson. Had all been together from
A young age and had won the under 18
League 2yrs before

 

[Toffeelover]

If we take him on loan are we committed to buying him at the end of that period?

 

[billyblue80]

Must be something in it since Simms is off

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Must be something in it since Simms is off.

I'd be really surprised if anyone came in. Hope i'am wrong like.