Just learned about Man Utd’s European ban in 1977. How bad was English hooliganism in the 1970s?

[Khalekan]

Maybe its just because i was younger and very rarely missed an away game that to me anyway, violence and bovver was much more a random, real and present threat in the 70s than it was in the 80s.

By the 80s I was a bit older than the age profile of the away fan the local hoolies woukd be targetting.

And the violence seemed more organised anyway....like rucks between consenting wannabe hard men.

But in the 70s....I had to run many a gauntlet and fight my way out of many a tight scrape.

I don’t know if the legendary Cockney John reads these pages but John was a great man to have with you when the local Teds came a’ calling.

He was fearless and had both the game and the the punch to make those divvies sorry they ever kicked off

 

[mrb85]

Definitely worse in the 70s, particularly because the violence in the early 70s was taking many by surprise. By the 80s the police and the clubs themselves were getting to grips through more and policing and better segregation both inside and outside the grounds.

 

[Calvin Aldi]

Some fellas from the 80s make out that every game outside the ground was like Black Hawk Down. I was only a kid and went regularly with my Dad and barely saw any trouble.

Some Kopites go on about that semi final in 85 at Goodison like some mythical battle from 300. "Yeah lad they chucked molten lava off the top balcony onto us with exploding bricks and poisonous darts from the Amazon. I was there and battered 50 Mancs in Stanley Park"

 

[Rob17896]

Some fellas from the 80s make out that every game outside the ground was like Black Hawk Down. I was only a kid and went regularly with my Dad and barely saw any trouble.

Some Kopites go on about that semi final in 85 at Goodison like some mythical battle from 300. "Yeah lad they chucked molten lava off the top balcony onto us with exploding bricks and poisonous darts from the Amazon. I was there and battered 50 Mancs in Stanley Park"

Never involved and did not see much. Remember a cup game against Barnsley, they had a load of miners who set about their own fans when they started the no job scouser chants. Of course all those clever lads in the seventies and eighties caused the penning-in at grounds and we know what that led to.

 

[shackattack]

As someone who went to Everton away games all over the place in the late seventies and through the eighties I’d have to agree with this! My feeling at the time was there would be trouble to be had if that was your thing and you wanted to get involved, but if you didn’t go looking it was quite avoidable! A couple of noticeable exceptions were Old Trafford where they’d wait in the side streets as we got herded back to the coaches (irrespective of whether or not you’d gone on a coach!). For some reason it also got interesting outside Wolves a couple of times!

the 76 game at old trafford where we bit them three nil was a bit lively afterwards. we must have had the whole scoreboard end that night.

 

[Khalekan]

Never involved and did not see much. Remember a cup game against Barnsley, they had a load of miners who set about their own fans when they started the no job scouser chants. Of course all those clever lads in the seventies and eighties caused the penning-in at grounds and we know what that led to.

I was at that game.

I don’t think Everton had played tgere in living memory and it seemed they all wanted to fight us.

There were hundreds of the buggers outside the station waiting to ambush us.

 

[paultheblue]

Some fellas from the 80s make out that every game outside the ground was like Black Hawk Down. I was only a kid and went regularly with my Dad and barely saw any trouble.

Some Kopites go on about that semi final in 85 at Goodison like some mythical battle from 300. "Yeah lad they chucked molten lava off the top balcony onto us with exploding bricks and poisonous darts from the Amazon. I was there and battered 50 Mancs in Stanley Park"

My brother was on a bit of a downer at the time and headed down to Goodison at three quarter time.
He was outside the paddock with about 50 kopites waiting to charge into the man u ., when he got inside he was swinging at all and sundry on his own as all the kopites got off.
He would probably have been killed only for this big Manc grabbed hold of him spotting his Everton hat and said to him what are you doing fella you hate these more than we do.
He had to agree and watched the game with the Man Utd apologising to a few he had earlier took a swing at.

Not condoning it the silly cnut

 

[Rob17896]

I was at that game.

I don’t think Everton had played tgere in living memory and it seemed they all wanted to fight us.

There were hundreds of the buggers outside the station waiting to ambush us.

This was at Goodison, they were fighting each other.....Yorkshire that

 

[Khalekan]

This was at Goodison, they were fighting each other.....Yorkshire that

lol

You know, I would have sworn it was a league game at their place but didn’t want to say in case my memory was playing tricks.

But it was a different game I am thinking off.

Their one and only top flight season in my lifetime....1997

And they really wanted a ruck.

 

[BHvisitor]

It was very violent in the 70’s. You’d see a gap appear in a packed terrace, then witness 100’s kicking the hell out of each other. There was no honour. I saw Spurs adult thugs attacking scarf wearing kids and women. Just reading a book where a WPC was tricked into an answering a fan’s faux question at Millwall, the knocked out by a coward’s punch from a bloke, same game a black woman watching had her head opened up by a machete. The English and Scottish clubs caused mass trouble on the continent. The numbers involved were huge. Away thugs were organised, hundreds covertly buying tickets ages ahead of games or paying at the turnstile, to “take the home end”. I saw Spurs, Chelsea and West Ham do this, even Bmuff of all clubs! Just took a bit of organisation, the police weren’t at the races.

 

[BHvisitor]

As someone who went to Everton away games all over the place in the late seventies and through the eighties I’d have to agree with this! My feeling at the time was there would be trouble to be had if that was your thing and you wanted to get involved, but if you didn’t go looking it was quite avoidable! A couple of noticeable exceptions were Old Trafford where they’d wait in the side streets as we got herded back to the coaches (irrespective of whether or not you’d gone on a coach!). For some reason it also got interesting outside Wolves a couple of times!

Wolves, Boro and Derby repeatedly crop up in forums, books and documentaries for just that. Ambushing all and sundry post match in tight streets. Boro are still scummy now, vile people who attack families even after they’ve won!

A genuine question for Scousers in this forum, of a certain age. Were Everton and dare I say RS able to more than look after themselves in any 70’s situation home or away? You both had a huge support, and Merseyside’s can be a tough place.

 

[artetas_biggest_fan]

To answer why I’d never heard of Man United getting banned from Europe, their ban somehow got overturned on appeal but they to had play their home games in Plymouth. Matt Busby clearly had an influence (“unfair on players as they weren’t to blame”)

How Manchester United ended up facing St-Étienne in Plymouth because of a riot | Paul Doyle

Violence at a 1977 Cup-Winners’ Cup tie between St-Étienne and United led to an order that the second leg be played at least 200km from Old Trafford

www.theguardian.com

Goalkeeper Alex Stepney told the BBC: “As far as I’m concerned as a player for United, United fans have nothing at all to do with me. We went over there and gave an advert for football, both teams. I mean, we’re getting condemned for something we haven’t done.”

The Guardian reported: Many in the media denounced UEFA for overturning the ban and being soft on crime. The Daily Mail: “It’s a cowardly decision that basically amounts to rapping Jack the Ripper across the knuckles and asking him to be a good little boy.”

Bit more detail on how bad English hooliganism was in the 1970s, before it was ramped up in the 1980s:

The Guardian’s David Lacey wrote that amid the fighting “a barrier collapsed and more than 100 St-Étienne fans climbed the 10ft wire fence which surrounds the pitch to escape … United supporters fought for several minutes and were then routed by French police who drove them to the terraces and in some cases out of the ground altogether.”

“In 1977, English football was in the throes of an era of glory and beauty on the pitch and fervour and mayhem on the terraces. Violence regularly attended matches involving English clubs – on the same night that United fans earned infamy in St-Étienne, there were skirmishes at a Uefa Cup tie between Manchester City and Widzew Lodz, while fighting between fans of Newcastle United and Bohemians in Dublin degenerated to such a level the Newcastle goalkeeper Mick Mahoney was felled by a brick. But events in St-Étienne were deemed exceptionally sinister and drew unprecedented punishment.”