2019/20 Marcel Brands

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murphy89 said:
Other than the fact the players aren't currently performing, I don't really get the hate for Marcel Brands. I actually don't his signings have been bad, other than the odd one:

Digne - came in and is our first choice LB. Could move in the summer to a club further up the table

Mina - thought he was playing well alongside Holgate and then was dropped. Is he league winning/CL quality? No. Is he better than most CBs at clubs relative to us in terms of current standing in football? Yes.

Gomes - massively improved the quality of our midfield. Clearly suffering a loss of form atm mainly due to fitness. People bringing up his assist numbers etc. However, Gomes was brought in to play in a midfield 3 where his job is to keep the ball moving. Opening up the pitch. His best performances have come in a three with a holding midfielder (Gueye) and an inform AM (Sigurdson).

Zouma - performed very well.

Bernard - worth a punt on a free. Hit and miss with form. Another player who is in and out the side and this has impacted his ability to form any partnerships. Wouldn't say a bad signing. Comfortably gets into any side outside the 'sky' top six.

Richarlison - our best player

Sidibie - on loan. Wouldn't keep him. Allowed us to send Kenny out on loan which could prove to be a good move long term. Given its a loan wouldn't say it was a bad signing.

Delph - bad signing. no questions.

Iwobi - poor signing. although I don't think he is a winger, was brought into play in Silva's 4/3/3 system. I think its unfair to completely blame this on Brands. The alchemy of circumstance more so.

Moise Kean - highly rated youngster. Still needs time. Jury out. Surely worth the risk if it works out long term?

Gbamin - can't judge.

I think we have to remember we are midtable side. Brand was never going to come in and just buy loads of superstars.
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Thing is, and I don't mean to have a go, that's just a really biased summary. Basically if someones done OK for a bit they're a good signing, and if someone hasn't done OK then they might do in future and if they don't it's probably because of things that changed after we bought them. You have to judge everyone on the same criteria, either look at what they've done so far or say we can't judge them yet. You can't really pick and choose depending on which one will make them sound better.
 

Lanolin said:
Thing is, and I don't mean to have a go, that's just a really biased summary. Basically if someones done OK for a bit they're a good signing, and if someone hasn't done OK then they might do in future and if they don't it's probably because of things that changed after we bought them. You have to judge everyone on the same criteria, either look at what they've done so far or say we can't judge them yet. You can't really pick and choose depending on which one will make them sound better.
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No worries mate. Doesn't come across like you're having a go.

I get that but it also depends on what you would class as doing okay for a bit. Do we expect players to perform regardless of changing circumstances? We aren't in a position to buy top players who are so good they can adjust to any system. We are midtable English side. We need to look at bringing players in to play specific roles who can help us improve the finer margins of our game and thus overall projecting us up the table.

I just think judging Brands on a signing is much more complex than simply saying has he played well or not. We need to look at what was the brief given to Brands. Does the player meet that brief and has been impacted by other circumstances or does the player not meet the brief. The latter would be a failure on Brands behalf.

There is always a risk with any signing. However, if we are looking at DoF performances these players haven't cost a lot (in modern transfer fees) and are relatively decent wages. If you compare to Walsh who brought in Sandro, Sigurdson and Scheiderlin on 100k per week +.
 
murphy89 said:
No worries mate. Doesn't come across like you're having a go.

I get that but it also depends on what you would class as doing okay for a bit. Do we expect players to perform regardless of changing circumstances? We aren't in a position to buy top players who are so good they can adjust to any system. We are midtable English side. We need to look at bringing players in to play specific roles who can help us improve the finer margins of our game and thus overall projecting us up the table.

I just think judging Brands on a signing is much more complex than simply saying has he played well or not. We need to look at what was the brief given to Brands. Does the player meet that brief and has been impacted by other circumstances or does the player not meet the brief. The latter would be a failure on Brands behalf.

There is always a risk with any signing. However, if we are looking at DoF performances these players haven't cost a lot (in modern transfer fees) and are relatively decent wages. If you compare to Walsh who brought in Sandro, Sigurdson and Scheiderlin on 100k per week +.
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Yeah i understand what you're saying.

I don't know what the official brief given to Brands was, so I can only go off my own expectations. I think he came in to find a fairly poor but not utterly hopeless squad. We'd just finished 8th, having finished 7th the season before, and most people didn't think that was good enough. Coming to the end of his second season, we're now 11th, having finished 8th again last season. That's not great, but more concerningly, I just don't really feel like we've improved as a team. We're still lacking technical ability, creativity, and pace. We're basically back to playing the same very basic football that we were playing under Allardyce in order to get results, which I really don't think is what any of us expected 2 years ago.

I'm absolutely not saying he has failed or will do. Richarlison and Digne are definitely successes, and I think signings like Nkounkou and Branthwaite are positive. I can't help feeling like we've just wasted a load of money again though. Hopefully some of them will prove me wrong, but as I said, it doesn't feel like the likes of Mina, Gomes, Bernard, Delph etc have actually improved us, either in terms of results or watchability. I know you said they've not cost a lot but that's £60m+ in fees and £300k+ week in wages for players who have us playing at the same level as we were before. That's without looking at Kean and Iwobi who maybe get a little bit more of a pass because of their age. Ultimately it's a long term project and there's (hopefully) plenty of time for things to pick up, but you also have to judge things on an ongoing basis, and right now i'd have to say that i'm a bit underwhelmed by the impact he's had on the team.
 
Why worry about our current league position. Who of any note do we now have to play? We've conceded basically 2 own goals since the restart while playing Liverpool Leicester spurs and Norwich. I'd be worried if we're 11th or lower at season end.
 

GwladysBlue said:
Just the 7 points behind Sheff Utd and the 4 behind Burnley with 5 games to go. Marcel Brands. Football genius.
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Marco Silva took alot of the blame for this season but this fella did nothing to help him.

No coincidence that the seasons both Koeman & Silva were sacked the recruitment in the respective summers were utterly dreadful.

And thats coming from someone who hated Silva.
 
MarcelsGoat said:
We should have kept Silva if Managers don't matter.
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His job is to provide the manager with the tools to do his job.

He didn’t get us a striker, he put that disgusting midfield together and tried to get Rojo on transfer deadline day.

He’s been shown up to be the utter clown he is this season and he should be sacked.
 

ForeverBlue92 said:
Marco Silva took alot of the blame for this season but this fella did nothing to help him.

No coincidence that the seasons both Koeman & Silva were sacked the recruitment in the respective summers were utterly dreadful.

And thats coming from someone who hated Silva.
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No signing would have helped Silva, The man was absolute tosh.
 
GwladysBlue said:
His job is to provide the manager with the tools to do his job.

He didn’t get us a striker, he put that disgusting midfield together and tried to get Rojo on transfer deadline day.

He’s been shown up to be the utter clown he is this season and he should be sacked.
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I hope he is, I'm quite bored from having to read people moan about him.
 

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