2019/20 Marcel Brands

[Goat]

Worst goad ever.

I told you, judge the players with a proper manager.

Big watch gone, points galore.

 

[davek]

I told you, judge the players with a proper manager.

Big watch gone, points galore.

Brands will now offer to get Shane Duffy for Ancelotti.

 

[Goat]

Brands will now offer to get Shane Duffy for Ancelotti.

My scout friend at Everton told me that Brands only signs ballers.

Just passing on the info, take it or leave it dave.

 

[nsno-chris]

19 minutes in and no signings

Koff brands ye nobhead

 

[arbok]

My understanding of the job a DoF does, is that he and the manager sit down and discuss the type of player the manager is looking for, it's then the job of the DoF to go out and look for said players. The DoF then puts his list to the manager with video of the players if poss, and then the manager decides what players he fancies if any, and then the DoF goes out and try's to sign them. But at the end of the day it's the managers decision. This is my understanding of the job or I'm I way of the mark.

I think this is mostly correct apart but I think it’s the final say goes to the DoF and the owners, it is the owners money after all. I think what happened in the past, especially the model in England was that the manager would buy players, but that was problematic when the manager got the sack and the club was left with players that suited the ex managers playing style and not only that but were loyal to the manager. So with a DoF approach, the players are loyal to the club and the owner that pays the wages and not the manager.

The DoF position does have positive benefits in that there’s better long term planning for the club, that suits the club rather than suiting the manager who makes the purchase. The DoF can be more concerned about getting better value out of deals and better squad management. The manager can then focus on the players and improving them and managing games.

 

[AmericasToffee]

I think this is mostly correct apart but I think it’s the final say goes to the DoF and the owners, it is the owners money after all. I think what happened in the past, especially the model in England was that the manager would buy players, but that was problematic when the manager got the sack and the club was left with players that suited the ex managers playing style and not only that but were loyal to the manager. So with a DoF approach, the players are loyal to the club and the owner that pays the wages and not the manager.

The DoF position does have positive benefits in that there’s better long term planning for the club, that suits the club rather than suiting the manager who makes the purchase. The DoF can be more concerned about getting better value out of deals and better squad management. The manager can then focus on the players and improving them and managing games.

Think that's two good overviews. The director is the action man to make the plans happen

 

[B17BLG]

My understanding of the job a DoF does, is that he and the manager sit down and discuss the type of player the manager is looking for, it's then the job of the DoF to go out and look for said players. The DoF then puts his list to the manager with video of the players if poss, and then the manager decides what players he fancies if any, and then the DoF goes out and try's to sign them. But at the end of the day it's the managers decision. This is my understanding of the job or I'm I way of the mark.

Basically hes alright at footy manager 2015?

 

[davek]

I think this is mostly correct apart but I think it’s the final say goes to the DoF and the owners, it is the owners money after all. I think what happened in the past, especially the model in England was that the manager would buy players, but that was problematic when the manager got the sack and the club was left with players that suited the ex managers playing style and not only that but were loyal to the manager. So with a DoF approach, the players are loyal to the club and the owner that pays the wages and not the manager.

The DoF position does have positive benefits in that there’s better long term planning for the club, that suits the club rather than suiting the manager who makes the purchase. The DoF can be more concerned about getting better value out of deals and better squad management. The manager can then focus on the players and improving them and managing games.

That's the theory. In reality the new manager will always come in and demand a type of player that weren't there before in the squad and want other players out of the club because they dont fit into his plans.

We'll see that now with Ancelotti in this window and in the summer.

So, what you get in essence with a DoF (and especially at this club) is another wasteful level of bureaucracy that slows down the process of getting players in and players out. That's what we've seen with Brands in the last two summer windows.

The DoF role is inefficient and (because we have a backseat driving owner who wants the final decision on practically every major football related call) particulary ill-suited to Everton.

 

[Nobby Nobbs]

I think this is mostly correct apart but I think it’s the final say goes to the DoF and the owners, it is the owners money after all. I think what happened in the past, especially the model in England was that the manager would buy players, but that was problematic when the manager got the sack and the club was left with players that suited the ex managers playing style and not only that but were loyal to the manager. So with a DoF approach, the players are loyal to the club and the owner that pays the wages and not the manager.

The DoF position does have positive benefits in that there’s better long term planning for the club, that suits the club rather than suiting the manager who makes the purchase. The DoF can be more concerned about getting better value out of deals and better squad management. The manager can then focus on the players and improving them and managing games.

Thanks mate a lot of what you said makes sense, my only reservation/problem with that is do you think aDoF would buy a player who wasn't on the list.

 

[arbok]

That's the theory. In reality the new manager will always come in and demand a type of player that weren't there before in the squad and want other players out of the club because they dont fit into his plans.

We'll see that now with Ancelotti in this window and in the summer.

So, what you get in essence with a DoF (and especially at this club) is another wasteful level of bureaucracy that slows down the process of getting players in and players out. That's what we've seen with Brands in the last two summer windows.

The DoF role is inefficient and (because we have a backseat driving owner who wants the final decision on practically every major football related call) particulary ill-suited to Everton.

Having the manager make the final choice in players or having the DoF do it, is down to how the owner wants to run the club. It's two different philosophies. The typical model for many european clubs has been the DoF model, whereas England has favoured giving the manager ultimate decision. There are positives to both as I laid out in my previous post. Almost every professional US sports team works under a seperate DoF and Coach model.

I tend to favour the DoF model, despite my distaste towards players being 'owned' by the club as assets, and that owners are desperate to cling on to any type of power they can get over players. That aside, I find that scouting/scourcing/recruiting players is quite a different set of work, than training/managing active roster players for games. If you can divide up the workload, it just seems more efficient. Its better to be an expert at a few things, than being good at everything. Scouting alone is watching tons of footage, reading up on data, travelling to see games and understanding if the player is a good fit. If there are two games a week in England, there's not a lot of time for scouting.

There is more than enough work for Marcel Brands managing the whole football club and recruiting and more than enough work for Carlo Ancelotti on the football pitch side of things. You're essentially saying that Ancelotti and Brands will disagree on the types of players they want to buy. Hopefully they've had a bit of discussion about their ideas of the players they want and that both of them will work well together.

As for the backseat driving owner - literally all owners call the shots, everybody else just does the work. Professional sports teams are literally billionaire's play toys. At least our owner got us Ancelotti.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

That's the theory. In reality the new manager will always come in and demand a type of player that weren't there before in the squad and want other players out of the club because they dont fit into his plans.

We'll see that now with Ancelotti in this window and in the summer.

So, what you get in essence with a DoF (and especially at this club) is another wasteful level of bureaucracy that slows down the process of getting players in and players out. That's what we've seen with Brands in the last two summer windows.

The DoF role is inefficient and (because we have a backseat driving owner who wants the final decision on practically every major football related call) particulary ill-suited to Everton.

I suspect the last paragraph is to far from the truth unfortunately.

 

[Toffeelover]

No matter what Dave says miles better than Walsh.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

Never forget

 

[davek]

Having the manager make the final choice in players or having the DoF do it, is down to how the owner wants to run the club. It's two different philosophies. The typical model for many european clubs has been the DoF model, whereas England has favoured giving the manager ultimate decision. There are positives to both as I laid out in my previous post. Almost every professional US sports team works under a seperate DoF and Coach model.

I tend to favour the DoF model, despite my distaste towards players being 'owned' by the club as assets, and that owners are desperate to cling on to any type of power they can get over players. That aside, I find that scouting/scourcing/recruiting players is quite a different set of work, than training/managing active roster players for games. If you can divide up the workload, it just seems more efficient. Its better to be an expert at a few things, than being good at everything. Scouting alone is watching tons of footage, reading up on data, travelling to see games and understanding if the player is a good fit. If there are two games a week in England, there's not a lot of time for scouting.

There is more than enough work for Marcel Brands managing the whole football club and recruiting and more than enough work for Carlo Ancelotti on the football pitch side of things. You're essentially saying that Ancelotti and Brands will disagree on the types of players they want to buy. Hopefully they've had a bit of discussion about their ideas of the players they want and that both of them will work well together.

As for the backseat driving owner - literally all owners call the shots, everybody else just does the work. Professional sports teams are literally billionaire's play toys. At least our owner got us Ancelotti.

Two things:

1/ There is not really an onerous task for the coach/manager in sorting out players. Most are familiar with exactly what's out there for the purpose they'll require. And experienced coaches will have 'go-to' agents they trust to sort the details of a deal out. In short: there is no distraction from coaching the team.

2/ Might Brands and Ancelotti differ on types of players required?: they will. How could they not diverge? Brands is someone who hasn't managed, he played to a certain level; Ancelotti was a top player and has managed players for years and knows what he's looking for. There is literally nothing other to do for Brands than to just nod in agreement with the manager who;s here right now on players required. He cant have input, he isn't qualified to gainsay Ancelotti. If he's useful elsewhere in the club (overall football strategy, U23 work, etc) then that's where he should confine his efforts to. IMO if that's all he does here then the club are paying him too much money.

The DoF role here at Everton is a BS position. We've seen waste and chaos after hiring our first 2, and I think that will be underlined soon enough when Brands leaves the club

 

[Coggy]

No matter what Dave says miles better than Walsh.

Agree entirely mate. Brands buys have been sound in the main , and this bodes well for the future.