2020/21 Marcel Brands

[Lanolin]

I've read Josh King is around 55k a week on his current contract.

Not a chance we are getting the full whack of Tosun and Bolasir off the books.

And Lossl was a contract termination, meaning we've probably paid him something like 80% of his salary on the basis that he gets the other 20% from his new club (i'm pretty confident in saying that FC Midtjylland aren't paying him any more than £5k a week and he hasn't just passed up a million quid in wages to go back there).

 

[Bluestar]

It's crazy but some people really did think we would go out and buy a few quality signings for a top 4 push, totally madness.
Priority was players out and wages saved.

Money no object, ignore FFP.

What if that meant we breached FFP rules or meant we missed out on our long term targets planned for the summer?

Exactly, we had a FFP limitation. That is why King is a loan.

We probably had to sell a Bernard to have a transfer kitty.

 

[roydo]

Money no object, ignore FFP.

Exactly, we had a FFP limitation. That is why King is a loan.

We probably had to sell a Bernard to have a transfer kitty.

King isnt a loan. Its a 6 month deal, with a year extension as an option for us.

At least thats what I recall. "Nominal" fee as well.

 

[Tree13]

No two ways about it, Marcel has played a blinder with the King deal. Unprecedented financial circumstances due to Covid yet he's still managed to bring a decent option in to cover positions of dire need.

That's before we even turn to look at the rate at which he's shifting the dead wood, AND getting what look like decent loan opportunities for the younger lads coming through. Really impressive stuff.

 

[Tree13]

I've read Josh King is around 55k a week on his current contract.

Not a chance we are getting the full whack of Tosun and Bolasir off the books.

It's been reported in several places that Besiktas are covering Tosun's wages for the rest of the season. no-one's reported us getting a loan fee, so it's distinctly possible that we negotiated a wage contribution from them.

Even if that's not true, consider the following: if Boro are covering half of Bolasie's wage every week and Besiktas are covering half of Tosun's weekly wedge, then those savings are paying King's wages. That would mean that Tosun is getting game time in a league where he might actually succeed (and therefore might actually have some transfer vaue / interest in the summer) AND we have a proper option off the bench to cover DCL and Richarlison AND it's not costing us a penny more per week than we were paying to have Tosun and Bolasie sitting at Finch Farm doing nothing.

I think it's very believable that Boro and Besiktas are paying 50% of the wages of the players we've sent their way.

 

[gaino92]

It's been reported in several places that Besiktas are covering Tosun's wages for the rest of the season. no-one's reported us getting a loan fee, so it's distinctly possible that we negotiated a wage contribution from them.

Even if that's not true, consider the following: if Boro are covering half of Bolasie's wage every week and Besiktas are covering half of Tosun's weekly wedge, then those savings are paying King's wages. That would mean that Tosun is getting game time in a league where he might actually succeed (and therefore might actually have some transfer vaue / interest in the summer) AND we have a proper option off the bench to cover DCL and Richarlison AND it's not costing us a penny more per week than we were paying to have Tosun and Bolasie sitting at Finch Farm doing nothing.

I think it's very believable that Boro and Besiktas are paying 50% of the wages of the players we've sent their way.

Educated guess and from reports I'd say Tosun wages 100% covered and Bolasie at most 30%

 

[Efcjake]

King isnt a loan. Its a 6 month deal, with a year extension as an option for us.

At least thats what I recall. "Nominal" fee as well.

I saw it widely reported it was a loan. He can walk away for free at the end.

 

[wandyr79]

There was a claim a few pages back that Carlo speaking to King pushed him to sign for us. Make of it what you will.

I don't doubt that at all, if you were a player of any age and Ancelotti was manager of a club that was looking at you, it would be a big deal and could easily sway your choice, if other clubs are making serious offers.

We all truly know that it is a club project and Ancelotti is a massive part of it, he has to work with them so I would be surprised if he did not talk to potential signings, maybe not all, especially youth players, but he would be there to have a say and/or maybe talk to the player about his plans for them if they signed.

 

[Nymzee]

I saw it widely reported it was a loan. He can walk away for free at the end.

A 6 month deal or a loan for 6 months can still be walked away from at the end. They're the same thing.

 

[Tree13]

Educated guess and from reports I'd say Tosun wages 100% covered and Bolasie at most 30%

I think we'd be happy enough with that though, yes?

If they're both (for ease of maths) on £70k per week and King is as well, then we've gone from paying:

a) £70k per week for Tosun and £70k per week for Bolasie = £140k per week for two people to do nothing

to

b) £0 per week for Tosun, £20k per week for Bolasie and £70k per week for King = £90k per week.

We've saved £50k per week and now King plays for us and Tosun gets regular football, hopefully attracting a buyer in the process. Everyone wins.

 

[bilyaletdinov_]

A 6 month deal or a loan for 6 months can still be walked away from at the end. They're the same thing.

Would the fact its a 6 Month deal with the option to extend for another 12 months negate any potential "signing bonus" we may have faced if we were to sign him as a free agent do you think?

 

[Efcjake]

A 6 month deal or a loan for 6 months can still be walked away from at the end. They're the same thing.

Yeah, it was more to @roydo 's point about the the year extension. I haven't seen that reported and as far as I know it's 6 months and he's free to make his own decision at the end.

He obviously wants to be here and is unlikely to attract better than us unless he's suddenly Ronaldo so he will likely sign a contract with us then.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I just fundamentally disagree with that to be honest. I think people massively overstate how bad the situation was when he came in. Koeman and Walsh had done an awful job, don't get me wrong, but we weren't hurtling in the wrong direction. What we'd done was massively overspend on players who couldn't take us to where we wanted to be. What we'd wanted/expected was to sign a load of players who swiftly moved us up from 11th to around the top 4. What we got was a load of players who moved us up from 11th to 7th/8th and were never going to take us higher. We were still the 7th/8th best squad in the league though, it's pretty undeniable really, seeing as we finished there with the majority of those players for 3 years running. Unless you think Koeman, Allardyce, and Silva were such good managers that they could massively punch above their weight? We didn't need completely turning round and steadying for 3 years, we needed an injection of quality and to use our budget better. Brands has clearly done at least a decent job, he has steadied the ship in that sense, but unless we actually start to move forward on the pitch then you simply can't say he's done a great job. The possibility is there, if we push on then I'll be saying you're right he's done it. If we don't finish higher than 8th this year though, there is just no way you can argue that both Brands and Ancelotti have both done well. None. Either we will have failed to get players who can improve us in 3 years, or we will have underperformed with the players we've got.

We’ll agree to disagree as I fundamentally disagree with most of that.

I think the situation in 17/18 was terrible. I actually do think that Allardyce and Silva did over perform at first. Allardyce had an awful group of players but in my opinion was a decent manager for that situation, he knew how to put a balanced team out with Gueye holding Rooney and Davies ahead of that then Lennon DCL Siggurdson upfront until Tosun and Walcott came in. We had a bit of a bounce when he arrived and we won enough games at home to see us ok into 8th on a low points score. I don’t think that was sustainable though. Silva benefitted from Richarlison Digne Mina coming in, Gueye staying and Gomes and Zouma on loan. That was like getting 5 new first team players. I think he slightly overachieved in his first season and then we were regressing back to a poor level in his second again.

Like I said we’ll have to be at peace disagreeing on this one.

 

[Nymzee]

Would the fact its a 6 Month deal with the option to extend for another 12 months negate any potential "signing bonus" we may have faced if we were to sign him as a free agent do you think?

Depends. There might be a bonus built into a 12 month deal.

Won't be as big as him being able to go shop around though.

 

[Bluestar]

King isnt a loan. Its a 6 month deal, with a year extension as an option for us.

At least thats what I recall. "Nominal" fee as well.

It is a 6 month loan, probably with options for a contract.

It happened because we maxed our FFP allowance.