Martinez new Belgium head coach

[Groucho]

to get a club that's under funded into that 70 points plus company is almost impossible to do

Ok.

Moyes 4th with <70 points.

Martinez 5th with >70 points.

Which is best?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

absolutely.
I understand why people are against him / don't rate him, I just think there are many of us around who think he could have turned it around.

The final few months of his tenure were torture, and really the only question should have been why he wasn't removed earlier. We should remember that whilst his 1st season was undoubtedly superb, his final two saw us secure the lowest points total since Rooney's last season with us and was scarcely any better than the dark days of the late 90s. That he did that once was fine, and I suspect most supporters still backed him into his 3rd season, but to then repeat the feat and get worse and worse as the season progressed, I think enough was enough.

Lets remember, from Christmas day until his sacking, we won 5 out of 20 league games, and 1 of his last 10 league games, scoring just 7 times in the process. It was terrible. Utterly terrible.

 

[hktoffee]

The final few months of his tenure were torture, and really the only question should have been why he wasn't removed earlier. We should remember that whilst his 1st season was undoubtedly superb, his final two saw us secure the lowest points total since Rooney's last season with us and was scarcely any better than the dark days of the late 90s. That he did that once was fine, and I suspect most supporters still backed him into his 3rd season, but to then repeat the feat and get worse and worse as the season progressed, I think enough was enough.

Lets remember, from Christmas day until his sacking, we won 5 out of 20 league games, and 1 of his last 10 league games, scoring just 7 times in the process. It was terrible. Utterly terrible.

Martinez was able to secure the worst ever Everton PL home record in a season too. When I did not fume anymore and expected to lose almost every game something was going wrong. I am sure the results so far this season will bring a lot of passion back, from top to bottom of the club.

 

[hktoffee]

Ok.

Moyes 4th with <70 points.

Martinez 5th with >70 points.

Which is best?

Moyes's net spend was around £1.5m per season. Martinez was about £16m per season. Enough said.

 

[COYBL25]

The final few months of his tenure were torture, and really the only question should have been why he wasn't removed earlier. We should remember that whilst his 1st season was undoubtedly superb, his final two saw us secure the lowest points total since Rooney's last season with us and was scarcely any better than the dark days of the late 90s. That he did that once was fine, and I suspect most supporters still backed him into his 3rd season, but to then repeat the feat and get worse and worse as the season progressed, I think enough was enough.

Lets remember, from Christmas day until his sacking, we won 5 out of 20 league games, and 1 of his last 10 league games, scoring just 7 times in the process. It was terrible. Utterly terrible.

A sensible and balanced post.

However I suspect someone will be along shortly with his take on things lol

 

[mkrudden]

The final few months of his tenure were torture, and really the only question should have been why he wasn't removed earlier. We should remember that whilst his 1st season was undoubtedly superb, his final two saw us secure the lowest points total since Rooney's last season with us and was scarcely any better than the dark days of the late 90s. That he did that once was fine, and I suspect most supporters still backed him into his 3rd season, but to then repeat the feat and get worse and worse as the season progressed, I think enough was enough.

Lets remember, from Christmas day until his sacking, we won 5 out of 20 league games, and 1 of his last 10 league games, scoring just 7 times in the process. It was terrible. Utterly terrible.

Absolutely agree, again. From a simply results perspective, it wasn't good enough and I fully accepted and still accept why he was dismissed.

There was far more to it than that though. He over achieved massively in that first season which is testament to him and the wonders he did with many players who found a new level.

In reality though, he managed to get the final few ounces of quality from a number of players that season and had little / no money to replace them.

Distin
Howard
Pienaar
Osman

These players were superb in the first season but fell off a cliff. In the summer before his second season, he had no idea that these 4 had lost the ability to get on a football pitch / play the game and thus chucked his entire kitty at bringing Lukaku into the club.

He made some bad buys of course and the whole set piece debacle was infuriating. All in all though, I do wonder how Koeman would have done coming into what Martinez did AND maintaining it without the ability to throw millions at the squad.

 

[squonk]

"The Dutch lad". Jesus wept.

His name is Koeman, Ronald Koeman. He was a great player and hopefully will be a great manager for us.

Bewildering that he keeps getting brought up in his predecessor's thread as if someone has an agenda against him.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Absolutely agree, again. From a simply results perspective, it wasn't good enough and I fully accepted and still accept why he was dismissed.

There was far more to it than that though. He over achieved massively in that first season which is testament to him and the wonders he did with many players who found a new level.

In reality though, he managed to get the final few ounces of quality from a number of players that season and had little / no money to replace them.

Distin
Howard
Pienaar
Osman

These players were superb in the first season but fell off a cliff. In the summer before his second season, he had no idea that these 4 had lost the ability to get on a football pitch / play the game and thus chucked his entire kitty at bringing Lukaku into the club.

He made some bad buys of course and the whole set piece debacle was infuriating. All in all though, I do wonder how Koeman would have done coming into what Martinez did AND maintaining it without the ability to throw millions at the squad.

How did he?

We'd finished 6th the season prior under Moyes with 63 points and he had the luxury of adding a striker (albeit on loan) who was the £20m+ finisher that Moyes could only dream of.

 

[mkrudden]

How did he?

We'd finished 6th the season prior under Moyes with 63 points and he had the luxury of adding a striker (albeit on loan) who was the £20m+ finisher that Moyes could only dream of.

With respect, it wasn't a simple like for like transition.

We played a completely different way, having Everton on the ball and playing confidently rather under Moyes which a more direct brand of football until the final third.

He changed everything about us, top to bottom, without spending any sort of serious cash.

Your argument is one I never understand. Whilst it is absolutely reasonable to suggest that Martinez ultimately failed to deliver - regardless of any context / mitigating circumstances - it cannot be denied in my opinion that he did a wonderful job in that first season.

Utd away, Arsenal away, Arsenal at home, Newcastle at home.... unbelievable performances which were absolutely no reflection of Moyes' team the season before.

Criticise where fair, absolutely. Credit where credit is due is also important.

 

[hktoffee]

Absolutely agree, again. From a simply results perspective, it wasn't good enough and I fully accepted and still accept why he was dismissed.

There was far more to it than that though. He over achieved massively in that first season which is testament to him and the wonders he did with many players who found a new level.

In reality though, he managed to get the final few ounces of quality from a number of players that season and had little / no money to replace them.

Distin
Howard
Pienaar
Osman

These players were superb in the first season but fell off a cliff. In the summer before his second season, he had no idea that these 4 had lost the ability to get on a football pitch / play the game and thus chucked his entire kitty at bringing Lukaku into the club.

He made some bad buys of course and the whole set piece debacle was infuriating. All in all though, I do wonder how Koeman would have done coming into what Martinez did AND maintaining it without the ability to throw millions at the squad.

Yes he did well for getting 5th but don't forget that was a team which got 63 points and 6th in the previous season.

Martinez had more resources than Moyes and now Koeman has more resources than Martinez. Think we moved on at time.

 

[mkrudden]

Yes he did well for getting 5th but don't forget that was a team which got 63 points and 6th in the previous season.

Martinez had more resources than Moyes and now Koeman has more resources than Martinez. Think we moved on at time.

For that first season? You sure?

 

[Papa Shango]

Moyes's net spend was around £1.5m per season. Martinez was about £16m per season. Enough said.

Not really...

There is a massive difference in spending between when Moyes was getting us to 4th and Martinez to 5th.

Seeing as we didnt actually "qualify" for the Champions League in either season though it doesn't really matter.

 

[hktoffee]

With respect, it wasn't a simple like for like transition.

We played a completely different way, having Everton on the ball and playing confidently rather under Moyes which a more direct brand of football until the final third.

He changed everything about us, top to bottom, without spending any sort of serious cash.

Your argument is one I never understand. Whilst it is absolutely reasonable to suggest that Martinez ultimately failed to deliver - regardless of any context / mitigating circumstances - it cannot be denied in my opinion that he did a wonderful job in that first season.

Utd away, Arsenal away, Arsenal at home, Newcastle at home.... unbelievable performances which were absolutely no reflection of Moyes' team the season before.

Criticise where fair, absolutely. Credit where credit is due is also important.

In a sense, yes he changed the style however the old defence drilling will still there in his first season. The difference you can tell in the defence setup between his 1st and 2nd/3rd season was huge. This was down to him putting more of his idea to the team after the first season like not practicing setpieces etc.

Not denying his first season was a success by the way.

 

[hktoffee]

For that first season? You sure?

I mean in average. Per season net spending.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

With respect, it wasn't a simple like for like transition.

We played a completely different way, having Everton on the ball and playing confidently rather under Moyes which a more direct brand of football until the final third.

He changed everything about us, top to bottom, without spending any sort of serious cash.

Your argument is one I never understand. Whilst it is absolutely reasonable to suggest that Martinez ultimately failed to deliver - regardless of any context / mitigating circumstances - it cannot be denied in my opinion that he did a wonderful job in that first season.

Utd away, Arsenal away, Arsenal at home, Newcastle at home.... unbelievable performances which were absolutely no reflection of Moyes' team the season before.

Criticise where fair, absolutely. Credit where credit is due is also important.

I didn't say he didn't do a good job that first season though, what I took issue with was that we'd 'massively over achieved'.

We didn't massively over achieve imo, he took a solid side that was defensively very good and expanded the way we played, pushing more bodies forwards and we played some good togger that season, no argument. But he had the luxury of adding a striker who we ended up paying £28m for, so in fairness we should have expected to improve that year.