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2017/18 Michael Keane

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ToffeeTim said:
Play Holgate with one of the others.

Never put Rooney and Schneiderlein beside each other in a 2.

Use Vlasic amd Lookman off the bench more often.

There are ways of finding blend but he seems intent on just camping us behind the ball net our own 18 yard line. We have a bad squad but not a completely useless one which is incapable of putting an attack together more than once a half.
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Perhaps he was sparing his CB’s from loads of games in relatively few days.

Maybe he thought they could cope with Bournemouth? As we all would.
 
ToffeeTim said:
No mobility. He can't defend on the front foot which is the mark of a good centre half.
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That's the first thing I noticed when he joined. At Burnley it clearly didn't get shown up as they defend so deep and have two banks of four so he's well protected. It's always risky signing a player from a club where it's all about the collective. He went out, another came in, Burnley haven't been weakened one iota. He was good at clearances at Burnley (as is Sahko at Palace) but when required to do more in a different team he has struggled.
ButOkayThatsFootball said:
Moves like he has rigor mortis. Moving forward, what's more worrying is his incapacity to play in a team that plays expansive football with a high line, sadly limited to Burnley's sardine-esque defensive set-up in my opinion.
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This.
 

I didn't think he was that bad today but it doesn't half look like a waste of money when you see Holgate outperforming him.

To all of us this seemed like an obvious signing but surely the scouting system should have done more research on how Burnley's style of play really lent itself well to how he was performing. That's what they're employed to do after all.
 
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Bravo to whoever said he runs like rigor mortis has set in! So true. He's a lanky streak of piss who cannot pass a football, very dominated in the air, is painfully slow and looks light years behind Mason Holgate even. A truly shocking signing.
 
Sorry, but the keeping them fresh argument doesn't wash, not when we're out of 2 cups. Williams and Holtgate were actually looking like a decent pairing, why the hell drop them? You pick your best defence and keeper week in, week out. This is Koeman all over again
 
I would honestly bounce all our centre halves, Williams, Mori, Keane, Jags, maybe at a push keep Holgate. In the long term of course. How many of the top six would those five play for? As for the fullbacks, we played Cuco and Kenny, they wouldn't get in most bottom 6. Baines is on his way out, Coleman is on his way back from a massive time away.

We all know the other areas we need, basically Everywhere except goalie. Do we trust Sam (alienate Vlasic, Lookman Klaassen and co.) to box it all of for us?
 

It's a bit of a problem when your major problem areas are at centre back, full back, centre midfield, on the wings and also up front.

In terms of Keane and defence in general, I assume both Williams (I say 50/50) and Jagielka (100%) are gone in the summer. Martina you'd think would be booted out due to us having Kenny and Coleman for RB and his inability to play left back or anywhere else to anything other than Sunday league standard. Mori is a bit of a hit and hope but I actually feel he may come good for us in time. Whether he wants to stay or not is probably the question. I'd not be surprised to see him go in the summer, hence thinking Williams may stay another year. Jagielka, Mori and Martina going leaves Coleman and Kenny at RB, Holgate, Williams and Keane at CB and Baines at LB. This is a huge worry because only Holgate is half decent for us at CB, while the other two are complete garbage. But will we really sign two new starting centre backs? We need it, but it won't happen. Baines needs to be back up. A top quality left back simply must be brought in ASAP.

Next season defence should be Coleman + three new signings, but I feel it will probably be Coleman, Williams, a new centre back plus Baines. If that happens we're well and truly going down.
 
I think part of the problem is how we judge defenders in this country. Someone who sits very deep with a compact midfield 4 right in front of them will find it easier to defend. They are also unlikely to get caught one on one in open spaces. This was Keane at Burnley last year. He sat deep and didn't have to move too far and just dealt with crosses.

We see players like Stones and Otamendi who at times get a little bit of a run around, and the prevailing opinion in this country is that they are crap. When I believe in reality these defenders are far far better. They defend on the front foot and are aggressive. They get less help, bit they enabled the rest of the side to be committed further up the field. And teams obviously benefit massively in attack because of this.

Otamendi was legitimately poor at times last year, but he's been phenomenal this year and the opinion is still that he's vulnerable. But the truth is that he wins all the important statistics for defenders. He wins it far far higher and far far more often than anyone else. And just look how City capitalise.

So the point I'm making is that the recruitment of Keane in a side who were supposedly looking to move up a level this season was utterly abject planning. I'll admit I thought he was much more mobile than he is, but our scouts and DOF etc should have been fully aware. If we want to play better football and start dictating then need less traditional English centre halves like Keane and more athletic, aggressive centre halves who attack the ball and can be trusted in open spaces. And yes that will mean we would look more open, but it would give us persistent threat in the final third. I agree with Sam that we need to build from the back, but not with his archaic anti football tactics.

Unfortunately Funes Mori is the only centre half we have in that mould who defends on the front foot consistently. And he's far from the answer. We need a complete rethink on our back 4 if we want to improve.
 
ToffeeTim said:
I think part of the problem is how we judge defenders in this country. Someone who sits very deep with a compact midfield 4 right in front of them will find it easier to defend. They are also unlikely to get caught one on one in open spaces. This was Keane at Burnley last year. He sat deep and didn't have to move too far and just dealt with crosses.

We see players like Stones and Otamendi who at times get a little bit of a run around, and the prevailing opinion in this country is that they are crap. When I believe in reality these defenders are far far better. They defend on the front foot and are aggressive. They get less help, bit they enabled the rest of the side to be committed further up the field. And teams obviously benefit massively in attack because of this.

Otamendi was legitimately poor at times last year, but he's been phenomenal this year and the opinion is still that he's vulnerable. But the truth is that he wins all the important statistics for defenders. He wins it far far higher and far far more often than anyone else. And just look how City capitalise.

So the point I'm making is that the recruitment of Keane in a side who were supposedly looking to move up a level this season was utterly abject planning. I'll admit I thought he was much more mobile than he is, but our scouts and DOF etc should have been fully aware. If we want to play better football and start dictating then need less traditional English centre halves like Keane and more athletic, aggressive centre halves who attack the ball and can be trusted in open spaces. And yes that will mean we would look more open, but it would give us persistent threat in the final third. I agree with Sam that we need to build from the back, but not with his archaic anti football tactics.

Unfortunately Funes Mori is the only centre half we have in that mould who defends on the front foot consistently. And he's far from the answer. We need a complete rethink on our back 4 if we want to improve.
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Absolutely stonking post mate. Agree on every single point.
 
Big Fat Sam said:
It's a bit of a problem when your major problem areas are at centre back, full back, centre midfield, on the wings and also up front.

In terms of Keane and defence in general, I assume both Williams (I say 50/50) and Jagielka (100%) are gone in the summer. Martina you'd think would be booted out due to us having Kenny and Coleman for RB and his inability to play left back or anywhere else to anything other than Sunday league standard. Mori is a bit of a hit and hope but I actually feel he may come good for us in time. Whether he wants to stay or not is probably the question. I'd not be surprised to see him go in the summer, hence thinking Williams may stay another year. Jagielka, Mori and Martina going leaves Coleman and Kenny at RB, Holgate, Williams and Keane at CB and Baines at LB. This is a huge worry because only Holgate is half decent for us at CB, while the other two are complete garbage. But will we really sign two new starting centre backs? We need it, but it won't happen. Baines needs to be back up. A top quality left back simply must be brought in ASAP.

Next season defence should be Coleman + three new signings, but I feel it will probably be Coleman, Williams, a new centre back plus Baines. If that happens we're well and truly going down.
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That's enough for me tonight. We are going down next year.
 

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