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Neville Southall and other goalkeepers

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It’s like comparing our midfield to Alan Ball, you just can’t. Ball and Southall were world class, very few players attain that level, certainly very few players that played for Everton. I might be old school, but all I want from my keeper is command of his area, communicates with his defence and obviously a good shot stopper. If he excels in those areas it will compensate for his distribution. You can’t tell me that Southall in his prime, wouldn’t be as effective today, just because he can’t beat an oncoming forward with skill and hit a pass 50 yards to someone. It’s strange as Grobbelear was seen as eccentric as he was the only footballing goalkeeper around at that time, but no one would bat an eyelid nowadays how he played.
 
Don't see it so much with Pickford (holding him to an impossible Nev standard), as he makes many aggravating mistakes and has a questionable attitude - deserves the scrutiny and scepticism he gets IMO.
Definitely saw it with Howard, though. For the majority of his time he was a good top half prem goalie, never one of the absolute top 2 or 3, but solid and attitude spot on. But because he wasn't anywhere near the same league as the Big Man he got a hard time from some of the fanbase it seemed, like he was miles out of his depth or something.
His last season did vindicate the Howard-haters, My God did he stink the place out at every level, but that wasn't what the majority of his time was like here.
 
Groucho said:
Firstly to set my stall out, I went to my first game when we were title holders and have been lucky enough to see Neville Southall at his world class best. The best goalkeeper in the world and in my opinion, the best goalkeeper there has ever been.

Now as a result, do you think we judge subsequent goalies unfairly as we hold them up to a standard they can never reach, or should we expect them to reach those standards?

Since the great man we’ve only had a couple, literally, who could even lace his boots in Nigel Martyn and Tim Howard. I have left out the current custodian of the #1 shirt purposefully.

I am actually behind Jordan Pickford, he’s a decent young goalie.

My question is, do we hold goalkeepers up to an impossible standard or should we expect them to reach that level?
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I am with you regarding Nev but don't leave Westie out. He was damned good as well.
 

Lanolin said:
I think it’s telling that you call Pickford a ‘young goalkeeper’. He isn’t really. He’s very much average age in terms of the keepers across the league, and has got loads of experience now. I think we have a habit sometimes of forgetting that players age. If someone’s young when they come into the side we act like they’re a kid for the next 5 years.

If you compare most keepers to southall they’ll fall short. Unfortunately I think Pickford falls short when compared to a lot of other keepers too.
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This.
 
Read an article today about the prem's top goalkeepers. Went through each of the key attributes like shot stopper, distribution, etc. - listing the top 5 in each area. Pickford wasn't mentioned in the whole article.
I was thinking Big Nev would have been #1 in each area.
 
In nearly 60 years of watching Everton, only 2 which stand out for me are Big Nev, ahead of Gordon West. Still have the '95 cup final replica goalie's jersey.
 

I agree with a lot of others here that we have had some pretty awful keepers between then and now. I believe part of it, though, wasn't just Everton specific. Goalkeepers got hit with quite a big change - the backpass rule - and then once they'd got on with that, they were one of the last positions to modernise as the game improved. Add to that that much of English football was pretty dire in the nineties and THEN add that Everton were dire and it's no surprise we had goalkeepers with plenty of errors. Richard Wright was a genuine disappointment - really thought we had a chance with him.
Tim Howard and Nigel Martyn were two of Moyes' best signings. It's no coincidence that the best teams he put out were with Martyn and then Howard.
 
Daveysgingerlovechild said:
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Joel was okay, nothing more, nothing less. But useful to have around for the money. You're right on Pickford, but that's what concerns me. The basics. Its that sense the ingredients are there, but the just need to consistently click.
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Basics can be practiced and perfected so I’m sure he’l be a class keeper soon as he has the world class saves in his locker too
 
Lanolin said:
I think it’s telling that you call Pickford a ‘young goalkeeper’. He isn’t really. He’s very much average age in terms of the keepers across the league, and has got loads of experience now. I think we have a habit sometimes of forgetting that players age. If someone’s young when they come into the side we act like they’re a kid for the next 5 years.

If you compare most keepers to southall they’ll fall short. Unfortunately I think Pickford falls short when compared to a lot of other keepers too.
Click to expand...
Goalkeepers can play till late 30’s So at 26 it’s relatively young
 
Without a doubt Southall was world class and a rare once in a generation talent.

It's difficult to compare now though as keepers are expected to do more, they're playing against arguably a better technical level of outfielder, with a very different ball and on pitches that are brilliant for getting clean contact on the ball.

It'd take more analysis than I'm capable of but a comparison of ball speeds, curvature and movement in the air might show a huge difference in what keepers are physically handling now than there was 30 years ago in Southall's prime.

And let's not forget the lad was binned off on loan after a nightmare derby. Even Big Nev wasn't the finished article in his early to mid 20's and needed that spell out of the firing line.
 

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