New Everton Owners: The Friedkin Group

[devon_blue]

Moyes has got himself into a strong position,that cant be denied.

I think we all need to wait and see what this actual recruitment system we're going to implement looks like.

A few poster seems to this it's cut dry and he's going to be doing the whole lot...that's impossible in today games.

I think if anything he may try and tailor the recruitment team to suit how he works and they possibly may get their remit from him in terms of what profile he wants

Plenty of binary thinking about how things will work with either a dof or non dof model. Not from you btw, replying as I agree w your take.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any organisational model but there seems to be a clear plan being implemented by the owners. How long have we wanted football people in charge of football matters? Seems like that is what we are getting. All reasons to be optimistic imo.

Think it’s essentially Moyes + helpers mate when we cut out the fancy titles.

its an executive team. Of course Moyes is a key component of it, but it isn’t a one man band. Leeds infrastructure didn’t fall over with manager changes post bielsa, so there’s evidence to suggest that wouldn’t happen here also.

 

[PhilM]

Plenty of binary thinking about how things will work with either a dof or non dof model.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any organisation

its an executive team. Of course Moyes is a key component of it, but it isn’t a one man band. Leeds infrastructure didn’t fall over with manager changes post bielsa, so there’s evidence to suggest that wouldn’t happen here also.

That's the typical Everton fan way. The inkling I have is that there'll be a position at group level (across their teams), but at the club there'll be some leeway.

Moyes wanted more of a say than simply being subservient to a DoF, but he won't have carte blanche authority over all incomings and outgoings at the club.

He may have a veto, but it will not be him choosing each and every target. And let's not forget, this model may not be the one that will remain forever!

Right now, Moyes has a job to bring stability to the club, from which the new owners can build from. Once that's in place, the model will evolve.

 

[devon_blue]

That's the typical Everton fan way. The inkling I have is that there'll be a position at group level (across their teams), but at the club there'll be some leeway.

Moyes wanted more of a say than simply being subservient to a DoF, but he won't have carte blanche authority over all incomings and outgoings at the club.

He may have a veto, but it will not be him choosing each and every target. And let's not forget, this model may not be the one that will remain forever!

Right now, Moyes has a job to bring stability to the club, from which the new owners can build from. Once that's in place, the model will evolve.

Exactly, sounds like the best of all worlds to me.

 

[Neiler]

Plenty of binary thinking about how things will work with either a dof or non dof model. Not from you btw, replying as I agree w your take.

There are advantages and disadvantages to any organisational model but there seems to be a clear plan being implemented by the owners. How long have we wanted football people in charge of football matters? Seems like that is what we are getting. All reasons to be optimistic imo.

its an executive team. Of course Moyes is a key component of it, but it isn’t a one man band. Leeds infrastructure didn’t fall over with manager changes post bielsa, so there’s evidence to suggest that wouldn’t happen here also.

Why is it an executive team? What’s your definition?

Disagree also on Leeds - Leeds got relegated. Also don’t think we’re implementing a Leeds purposeful structure either so any parealls
Are coincidental.

 

[devon_blue]

Because they are senior staff on seemingly an equal footing, all reporting to CEO, not the manager.

The point was about the structures remaining in place, not falling over with manager changes.

The fact they got relegated was down to Bielsa being found out tactically, not sure what that’s got to do with with this discussion. They’ve continued to recruit and do business well despite that setback and look likely to be promoted again.

Why is it an executive team? What’s your definition?

Disagree also on Leeds - Leeds got relegated. Also don’t think we’re implementing a Leeds purposeful structure either so any parealls
Are coincidental.

 

[Blue peter]

I’d be flabbergasted if they gave Moyes the key to the entire kingdom. Doing that is a one way route to failing at an integrated Kay stakeholder model, a lack of succession planning and risk to the coaching and success of the first team, and quite frankly as decent as Moyes is, even far more successful coaches like Klopp and Guardiola don’t have that power.

The reality is no one knows what is going to happen. For all we know Smellwell going wasn’t a club decision, it may have been his and it may be the clubs intention to fill that role. People are putting two and two together and getting five.

 

[Zatara]

The structure will be this in the football Dept - there will be a CEO, Moyes, a head of football operations and head of recruitment. The first two are self explanatory and the other two will be satellites to the first two.

The head of football operations will manage operationally the likes of S&C, medical and Allied Heath, Performance Data etc. etc. Head of recruitment will operationally manage the scouting network, player data, loan management etc.

All four will operationally are likely to have an input operationally in the terms of future planning and recruitment etc - but with overall authority going to Moyes and the CEO - with checks and balance at board level.

If im being completely honest, i do probably prefer that autocratic structure overall as opposed to a DOF model - which as a structure in this organization culturally has never worked, the point ive been making however is a critique of the autocratic operation model we've gone for - it is dependent on the competency of the keystone individual involved - Moyes in this case - but that dependency creates risks in transition when you loose your manager and Moyes is in the twilight of his career. Therefore i do think we have shown a huge amount of surprising faith in him and the structure in terms of sustainability and longevity going into the future.

It will be very hard to transition in 3-5 years time away from Moyes as a key stone of the structure.

Im surprised we've gone this way.

I think we are trying to do with Moyes what Villa did with Emery. Hes in total control at Villa and its borne fruit. But again its where do Villa go after Emery, like where do everton go after Moyes.

Emery is early 50s, Moyes early 60s.

Emery is a worldwide name, as is Monchi.

The 'key' here is on:

A: Elite level recruitment
B: Elite level youth development
C: Rapid on-pitch success

For me, looking at Thelwell (under major constraints) and allowimg him to bring in a young 'superstar' coach -- this would be seen as a long-term plan.

Giving David Moyes the keys to the kingdom looks extremely pedestrian in comparison.

According to the athletic, Leeds under Kinnear have also been operating without a DOF. They have a head of strategy, a head of ops and a head of trading all reporting to Kinnear. Could imagine we’ll have something similar here with Moyes making up the transfer committee. I’d imagine Moyes’ voice would be the heaviest but would hope the rest of them would not simply be yes men

Jessee Marsche
Jean-Kevin Augustin
Poor contract decisions e.g Harrison and many more.

The main points of 'success' appear to be him facing up on a tour and partnership deal with Myanmar & a dodgy Leeds logo.

Great job at West Ham of course...lol

Of course he left as Moyes arrived there...they werent in a good spot then were they!

Tbf the athletic article suggests the Leeds model will be implemented with senior personnel for recruitment, player trading, strategy and ops working with the manager - so a team of five reporting to CEO.

This implies an infrastructure that will remain in place, with roles being replaced as required. I think the expectations that all will leave should Moyes depart are unfounded, with the exception of coaching staff perhaps.

I don’t know enough about Leeds to say for sure this is the case but it has been noticeable how consistently good their recruitment and player trading has been since their return to premier league and since. Plenty of reasons for cautious optimism imo.

We’ll find out I guess , I’m looking forward to seeing what happens. The wolves presser also gave me hope re Moyes ambitions for squad quality. Didn’t pull any punches re expectations for loan and peripheral players. Very clear.

Do you see Leeds as having had a level of success with recruitment greater in comparison to Evertons since Thelwell joined?

 

[Neiler]

Because they are senior staff on seemingly an equal footing, all reporting to CEO, not the manager.

The point was about the structures remaining in place, not falling over with manager changes.

The fact they got relegated was down to Bielsa being found out tactically, not sure what that’s got to do with with this discussion. They’ve continued to recruit and do business well despite that setback and look likely to be promoted again.

They won’t be on an equal footing mate, Moyes just torpoded a DOF and lining up his pal from WHU as head or recruitment. He’s making the appointments who don’t think hold the authority there. They will be satellites executives hold authority. No one will be appointed without the managers assent. I don’t know what you’ve seen so far to suggest otherwise. Moyes is the keystone.

What it has to do with the discussion is that you brought up Leeds, ultimately the structure failed. Why would we want to mimic that or look up to
it as a model! There fans describe it as bad kid management.

 

[devon_blue]

Emery is early 50s, Moyes early 60s.

Emery is a worldwide name, as is Monchi.

The 'key' here is on:

A: Elite level recruitment
B: Elite level youth development
C: Rapid on-pitch success

For me, looking at Thelwell (under major constraints) and allowimg him to bring in a young 'superstar' coach -- this would be seen as a long-term plan.

Giving David Moyes the keys to the kingdom looks extremely pedestrian in comparison.



Jessee Marsche
Jean-Kevin Augustin
Poor contract decisions e.g Harrison and many more.

The main points of 'success' appear to be him facing up on a tour and partnership deal with Myanmar & a dodgy Leeds logo.

Great job at West Ham of course...lol

Of course he left as Moyes arrived there...they werent in a good spot then were they!



Do you see Leeds as having had a level of success with recruitment greater in comparison to Evertons since Thelwell joined?

I think while not directly comparable they have had consistent success, yes.

 

[devon_blue]

Emery is early 50s, Moyes early 60s.

Emery is a worldwide name, as is Monchi.

The 'key' here is on:

A: Elite level recruitment
B: Elite level youth development
C: Rapid on-pitch success

For me, looking at Thelwell (under major constraints) and allowimg him to bring in a young 'superstar' coach -- this would be seen as a long-term plan.

Giving David Moyes the keys to the kingdom looks extremely pedestrian in comparison.



Jessee Marsche
Jean-Kevin Augustin
Poor contract decisions e.g Harrison and many more.

The main points of 'success' appear to be him facing up on a tour and partnership deal with Myanmar & a dodgy Leeds logo.

Great job at West Ham of course...lol

Of course he left as Moyes arrived there...they werent in a good spot then were they!



Do you see Leeds as having had a level of success with recruitment greater in comparison to Evertons since Thelwell joined?

I was hopeful thelwell would be retained too tbf, as i do rate his performance highly.

On the flip side, tfg have gone for a different approach and we will have to see how it goes but I would prefer to look at the potential positives currently, which I think could be numerous.

 

[devon_blue]

They won’t be on an equal footing mate, Moyes just torpoded a DOF and lining up his pal from WHU as head or recruitment. He’s making the appointments who don’t think hold the authority there. They will be satellites executives hold authority. No one will be appointed without the managers assent. I don’t know what you’ve seen so far to suggest otherwise. Moyes is the keystone.

What it has to do with the discussion is that you brought up Leeds, ultimately the structure failed. Why would we want to mimic that or look up to
it as a model! There fans describe it as bad kid management.

The athletic article states they want a flatter structure with defined roles working in collaboration, literally the opposite of what you’re describing.

I don’t know if that structure necessarily caused the relegation - seemingly manager refusal to adapt tactics. Admittedly slow decision change manager in the end.

Which DoF did moyes torpedo? Thelwell? Not sure I agree with that if so

 

[Zatara]

I think while not directly comparable they have had consistent success, yes.

I was hopeful thelwell would be retained too tbf, as i do rate his performance highly.

On the flip side, tfg have gone for a different approach and we will have to see how it goes but I would prefer to look at the potential positives currently, which I think could be numerous.

Which transfer decisions under Kinnear's watch do you see as being 'superior' lets say to Thelwell?

Also, if you know...when he was at West Ham?

For me, yes they signed Gnonto and Summerville but the main success for me was Archie Gray. Not seeing any wow factor?

 

[Bebeto]

I’d be flabbergasted if they gave Moyes the key to the entire kingdom. Doing that is a one way route to failing at an integrated Kay stakeholder model, a lack of succession planning and risk to the coaching and success of the first team, and quite frankly as decent as Moyes is, even far more successful coaches like Klopp and Guardiola don’t have that power.

The reality is no one knows what is going to happen. For all we know Smellwell going wasn’t a club decision, it may have been his and it may be the clubs intention to fill that role. People are putting two and two together and getting five.

Our most successful spell in the last 20 plus years has been when moyes had full control...so I guess its a safe bet...add some young upcoming talent in his supporting network to learn from him, and continuity shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Tony’s Carp]

The athletic article states they want a flatter structure with defined roles working in collaboration, literally the opposite of what you’re describing.

I don’t know if that structure necessarily caused the relegation - seemingly manager refusal to adapt tactics. Admittedly slow decision change manager in the end.

Which DoF did moyes torpedo? Thelwell? Not sure I agree with that if so

I'm actually quite warm, in theory anyway, to this kind of flatter structure. At the moment it seems to me that the DoF can almost be a distraction in accountability terms to individual "heads of" and maybe you are better separating that out into specialised and defined roles rather than having "heads of" in title but not in practise.

For example, Dan Purdy is our Head Of Recruitment. But when recruitment is discussed it's almost entirely the DoF being held responsible. If the actual Head Of gets neither the praise for the good nor the blame for the bad does that encourage performance? Likewise with the Head Of Academy etc.

If the idea is to get the best possible people for each department head, you shouldn't need an extra layer of management between them and board / CEO, that just muddies the waters. Have each Head Of actually carry the can for their individual portfolio and accountability will lead to performance.

 

[devon_blue]

Which transfer decisions under Kinnear's watch do you see as being 'superior' lets say to Thelwell?

Also, if you know...when he was at West Ham?

For me, yes they signed Gnonto and Summerville but the main success for me was Archie Gray. Not seeing any wow factor?

Wasn’t Raphinia among their recruits? Off top of my head. At the time we were complaining about our declining value players on big contracts, we were also saying we needed to find the gnontos etc before they did.