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New Everton Stadium

davek said:
Stop genuflecting to people with money. Most of them steal it anyway. They dont know anymore than you or I.
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You need help mate, you're utterly obsessed with own tangled web of paranoid delusion.

And yes, the people running one of the top football clubs in the world do know more about absolutely everything pertaining to financing and running a successful football club than you, a cyber village idiot.
 
davek said:
Everton should have redeveloped Goodison. It's been done to death why we should stay there, so i wont elaborate. Suffice to say if the will was there it could be done. I suspect it wont be contemplated because owners cant increase the value of their shares via a redevelopment as much as they could by building a new one.
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What's wrong with that. Football has been a business for a long time now. It's just we are now starting to grasp it albeit 20 years too late. They are now starting to realize that to make the shares grow we need to be better. To be better we need to increase revenue. Goodison is only holding us back.
 
davek said:
It's the club's officer's job to do the what ifs and try and minimize them.

Look, there's no getting away from this fundamental fact: this would be a half billion pound debt that will hang over a company which is part of the entertainments industry for 40 years. If I put it in those basic terms does it get through any better? Changing conditions WILL occur throughout that period, both for the club (good or bad) and the industry itself (good and bad).

Is it a sensible risk to place an institution that's got by for 139 years by acting in a largely logical and conservative manner?
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Ok . You're right of course there is risk. I personally accept this risk as a necessity to halt our long period of decline, you do not. So my question is , if you had sole responsibility for the future of our club what course of action would you pursue? Would you continue the policy of managed decline , which is essentially what we have had for the past 30 years.? Would you do nothing and hope, Micawber like 'something would turn up'? You are heavily critical of the current course of action yet you do not posit an alternative. Please enlighten us.
 

davek said:
It's the club's officer's job to do the what ifs and try and minimize them.

Look, there's no getting away from this fundamental fact: this would be a half billion pound debt that will hang over a company which is part of the entertainments industry for 40 years. If I put it in those basic terms does it get through any better? Changing conditions WILL occur throughout that period, both for the club (good or bad) and the industry itself (good and bad).

Is it a sensible risk to place an institution that's got by for 139 years by acting in a largely logical and conservative manner?
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Firstly I'm pretty sure they will have done risk assessment that's part of the process.

Secondly I'm not stupid and I understand what you have said and I think you are totally and utterly wrong. You should be a politiction as you haven't actually answered my question... as per usual.

And if you think the club has acted in a largely and conservative manner you really are showing you know nothing about business. Firstly we don't own the training ground... it was sold off... we didn't own Goodison it was mortgaged... we don't do our own catering... we don't run our own shops... I could go on. Kenwright has sold all the family silver and had nowhere else to go... which is why he was desperately trying to get investment as he couldn't provide or access ways of funding. And those funding streams he did access saddled the club with extortionate interest rates.

If you honestly can't see this is the best chance we have had in years to move forward, as the current football climate needs money to move forward, not saying I agree with it but it's a sad fact of reality, then you are clearing showing you have zero idea how to run a business.

You have been asked this before but how exactly would you do it? The arsenal way? That was dependant on champions league money.. not that I expect you to actually answer as you never do....
 
Eggsyblueskin said:
Ok . You're right of course there is risk. I personally accept this risk as a necessity to halt our long period of decline, you do not. So my question is , if you had sole responsibility for the future of our club what course of action would you pursue? Would you continue the policy of managed decline , which is essentially what we have had for the past 30 years.? Would you do nothing and hope, Micawber like 'something would turn up'? You are heavily critical of the current course of action yet you do not posit an alternative. Please enlighten us.
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That's the reasonable response that should be taken instead of a mob trying to demolish a poster over concerns for the 139 year old institution we all hold dear. Their argument seems to be: 'Just let "The Mosh" get on with it. He knows what he's doing"'. Well I dont know "the Mosh" from a hole in the ground, tbh, so forgive me for not trusting the motives of a man I knew absolutely f.a. about this time 18 months ago.

In answer to your question: there's no need to put yourself in harms way for 40 years because it's not the only model available.

Why not get our act together on the pitch and then see where we stand regarding capacity and location of any new stadium? I'm told we have a billionaire in control who has loads of rich friends willing to help out, so that shouldn't be hard.
 
Jeff Jones said:
I hope you're right. A few pages ago it was stated that it wouldn't be submitted until 2018.
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Hi Jeff,

For a project of this size, you would seek outline permission before really spending big money on a successful planning application. I'd imagine consultations with the planning authority are taking place throughout the process. All the various reports needed for a project of this size is what takes up most resources. I'd reckon a planning application could be lodged at the end of the year at the earliest or in early 2018, then a decision could take between 2-4 months.
 
ashwuk76 said:
Firstly I'm pretty sure they will have done risk assessment that's part of the process.

Secondly I'm not stupid and I understand what you have said and I think you are totally and utterly wrong. You should be a politiction as you haven't actually answered my question... as per usual.

And if you think the club has acted in a largely and conservative manner you really are showing you know nothing about business. Firstly we don't own the training ground... it was sold off... we didn't own Goodison it was mortgaged... we don't do our own catering... we don't run our own shops... I could go on. Kenwright has sold all the family silver and had nowhere else to go... which is why he was desperately trying to get investment as he couldn't provide or access ways of funding. And those funding streams he did access saddled the club with extortionate interest rates.

If you honestly can't see this is the best chance we have had in years to move forward, as the current football climate needs money to move forward, not saying I agree with it but it's a sad fact of reality, then you are clearing showing you have zero idea how to run a business.

You have been asked this before but how exactly would you do it? The arsenal way? That was dependant on champions league money.. not that I expect you to actually answer as you never do....
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Yes, all correct and lamentable...but all manageable and not carrying with them the existential threat to Everton FC that a half billion pound debt would bring.

All I ask is this: stop, think about who we have in charge, ask yourself if the scheme they propose is one that you feel comfortable with given how much matters can change in a decade never mind four of them.
 

ashwuk76 said:
They clearly know more than you or I.. . They are billionaires.. we are not...
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This attitude beggars belief. How does anyone think that because someone has wealth they know more about the football club you support and the business its in than you do?

These people by and large are alien to us. They have different motivations and they cant, imo, be trusted...or certainly they cant be offered trust when they've produced nothing so far that suggests that trust is earned.
 
davek said:
Yes, all correct and lamentable...but all manageable and not carrying with them the existential threat to Everton FC that a half billion pound debt would bring.

All I ask is this: stop, think about who we have in charge, ask yourself if the scheme they propose is one that you feel comfortable with given how much matters can change in a decade never mind four of them.
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You call that manageable how exactly? There isn't anything left to sell.. except players ... if we continue down this route we had been on. Our commercial side is a shambles.. which will get better I'm sure.. moshiri has come in ... and not that you want to admit it made it so we COULD move because we couldn't before because of the pru... more than kenwright has ever done considering it's his fault the charge was there.

I do think the risk is worth taking otherwise we will stagnate and possibly go down and heaven forbid be relegated... we need more money being generated and stating at Goodison won't achieve that. You say redevlop Goodison? I've seen those plans that people have come up and and I don't see how they can work and generate the money we need... and I think that would involve forcing people out of their homes as the footprint isn't big enough at Goodison and I don't want to go down that route like them lot did.
 
davek said:
This attitude beggars belief. How does anyone think that because someone has wealth they know more about the football club you support and the business its in than you do?

These people by and large are alien to us. They have different motivations and they cant, imo, be trusted...or certainly they cant be offered trust when they've produced nothing so far that suggests that trust is earned.
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We are supporters and are passionate about our club and nothing wrong with that. But they know how to make money better than i do that's for certain. I'm not stupid far from it... but I ain't a billionaire and I do have some knowledge of how to run a business.

You say they have offered nothing? You have been told time and again what has changed to far yet you just don't want to accept it. That's your choice... fact it things have changed and I am pretty sure it will change for the better.
 
davek said:
Yes, all correct and lamentable...but all manageable and not carrying with them the existential threat to Everton FC that a half billion pound debt would bring.

All I ask is this: stop, think about who we have in charge, ask yourself if the scheme they propose is one that you feel comfortable with given how much matters can change in a decade never mind four of them.
Click to expand...

Our Prudential 25 year loan and the other short term borrowings were costing the club circa £6m a year to service, that's now gone.

The funding scheme for the new stadium is going to cost circa £8.5m on top of the amount you have just admitted was 'manageable', and that's without factoring in the increased revenue from the additional seats, additional corporate, more of the matchday pound being spent at the ground due to better facilities, and a naming rights deal that could possible even cover the entire annual amount.

All you're doing is scare mongering, without having a grasp of the numbers imo.
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
Our Prudential 25 year loan and the other short term borrowings were costing the club circa £6m a year to service, that's now gone.

The funding scheme for the new stadium is going to cost circa £8.5m on top of the amount you have just admitted was 'manageable', and that's without factoring in the increased revenue from the additional seats, additional corporate, more of the matchday pound being spent at the ground due to better facilities, and a naming rights deal that could possible even cover the entire annual amount.

All you're doing is scare mongering, without having a grasp of the numbers imo.
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Well said hadn't thought of that bit!
 

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