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Stephen Gibson
Player Valuation: £15m
Are Pattern working for us or working for Laing? I only ask because of the worry over a cost cutting exercise from some & it got me wondering if a technical architect could in theory run the numbers on the design architects work & it turns out it could be built cheaper than first thought but still to the exact same brief?
If so, would that information be fed back to the club to either get more for thier money like increased capacity etc or choose to save cash, or would it get fed back to Laing who will be rubbing thier hands with increased profits?
This industry is alien to me so just trying to learn a little.
If so, would that information be fed back to the club to either get more for thier money like increased capacity etc or choose to save cash, or would it get fed back to Laing who will be rubbing thier hands with increased profits?
This industry is alien to me so just trying to learn a little.
KindofBlue
Player Valuation: £2.5m
I negotiate/manage these type of deals as part my job.
What has happened here is not unheard of. However, standard practice when hiring a design architect would include Meis' firm providing a complete outline of scope and costs for their involvement in each stage of development. One would need to see the tender docs and design agreement to understand the original intent of the scope and what his expectations should have been at this stage.
When you use an international design firm there is always a need to hire a local architect with knowledge of local building codes and regulations for compliance purposes. Generally however the local architects work under the design architect and in consultation with the owner directly to keep the desired "vision" intact. Regardless of the technical architect's contract scope being awarded elsewhere it would be most common and advantageous to retain Meis in some fashion as design consultant at least. No one is better at selling a vision to politicians and stakeholders than the artist himself. I do find it odd he has been frozen out.
Many factors could have played into what has happened. I am not local to Liverpool or Europe for that matter but in my experience it could be any of the following:
1. Cost
2. Quality and detail of bid submitted for the work was simply inferior.
3. a redesign is coming.
4. stakeholder politics both local and international
5. Developer/Engineer leveraging local influence on owner
6. Potential Financier (which is sometimes local government) using leverage to Influence owner's choice of who gets the work.
In summary business took place. Business is cruel, rarely fair and someone always loses. Usually the nice guy.
Cheers
What has happened here is not unheard of. However, standard practice when hiring a design architect would include Meis' firm providing a complete outline of scope and costs for their involvement in each stage of development. One would need to see the tender docs and design agreement to understand the original intent of the scope and what his expectations should have been at this stage.
When you use an international design firm there is always a need to hire a local architect with knowledge of local building codes and regulations for compliance purposes. Generally however the local architects work under the design architect and in consultation with the owner directly to keep the desired "vision" intact. Regardless of the technical architect's contract scope being awarded elsewhere it would be most common and advantageous to retain Meis in some fashion as design consultant at least. No one is better at selling a vision to politicians and stakeholders than the artist himself. I do find it odd he has been frozen out.
Many factors could have played into what has happened. I am not local to Liverpool or Europe for that matter but in my experience it could be any of the following:
1. Cost
2. Quality and detail of bid submitted for the work was simply inferior.
3. a redesign is coming.
4. stakeholder politics both local and international
5. Developer/Engineer leveraging local influence on owner
6. Potential Financier (which is sometimes local government) using leverage to Influence owner's choice of who gets the work.
In summary business took place. Business is cruel, rarely fair and someone always loses. Usually the nice guy.
Cheers
TheSecondComing
Player Valuation: £35m
I don’t care what you do who you stab in the back just build the damn thing
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
I've never seen the attraction lf twitter and that would be even more so if i was famous, its a terrible platform for egos
Bazlar
Player Valuation: £20m
Thanks for that mate. Good to hear from someone who has had experience in the sort of things instead of blag twitter posts. Stay on board
GwladysPhil
Player Valuation: £35m
Said this a while back and a few times recently now, it’s nothing new to change the architect to a more technical and local one when it’s being tendered for.
im getting the impression now his strategy was to get all the passionate, but less educated blues on his side, kind of like the Esk, thinking it would somehow have us sway the club or put pressure on them to give him the next stage.
as previously mentioned it’s happened to him with the Cincinnati project, his tweets prior and recently have been unprofessional and cringe, all we should have known is a company called “Meiss”put forward the iconic concept design, a small amount of engagement would have been welcome but acting like we’ve disrespected him to get some blues against the club is not on.
im getting the impression now his strategy was to get all the passionate, but less educated blues on his side, kind of like the Esk, thinking it would somehow have us sway the club or put pressure on them to give him the next stage.
as previously mentioned it’s happened to him with the Cincinnati project, his tweets prior and recently have been unprofessional and cringe, all we should have known is a company called “Meiss”put forward the iconic concept design, a small amount of engagement would have been welcome but acting like we’ve disrespected him to get some blues against the club is not on.
GwladysPhil
Player Valuation: £35m
Part of me also see's is getting planning permission announced either tomorrow or after they lift it.
tommye
Player Valuation: £100m
ProZ
Player Valuation: £40m
So the nice brickwork will be replaced with combustible cladding no doubt
Blackwell Livermore
Player Valuation: £8m
That's our Dave. He did it with Brands too. However in this case I agree with him.
Late to this but the state of Meis going full Barkley. lol
jayonenote
Player Valuation: £8m
To the same specifications or cheaper option?
Eggsyblueskin
Player Valuation: £40m
As I understand it the nice brickwork will be constructed of imprinted concrete panels anyway.