Newcastle, Victims of their own Failure!

[GhostOfDixie]

Well this nation is full of diverse cultures, we don't have to go abroad to learn cultures. Most people come to this country purely for financial reasons.

 

[neonleon]

So basically what your saying is we have no natural flair in this country and we need to go abroad to get it?

Ever watch any of the FA Victory Shield games? Plenty of flair players in those games.

no. Flair is just one aspect. Controlling tempo is another. As is keeping possession and distributing intelligently from the back. Or team discipline. Or the benefits of technique and control that can be learnt from futsbal. And the list can be added to indefinitely.

The english disease is too play full throttle, close down, defend a lead, hoof the ball from the back only to inevitably lose the ball and end up defending from the opponents again and again.

This isn't just everton at times, its everyone bar arsenal in the premiership. Also you can see it in the England team. We lack the players to control the speed of the game, by putting their foot on the ball and keeping possession.

The contention that England does not contain and exhaust the entirety of football knowledge isn't a particularly brave one to state. Of course we can learn from other cultures and styles of play - as well as coaching techniques and approaches to the game.

We haven't won a trophy internationally since before I was born.

Changing the manager at the top is one thing, but we need to change this monoculturalist approach from the grassroots up as well.

Tim Cahill moved from Oz to England to pursue his football dreams, is it too much that a few youngsters in England move to Spain or Portugal and learn a new language and a new style of footy.

 

[neonleon]

Well this nation is full of diverse cultures, we don't have to go abroad to learn cultures. Most people come to this country purely for financial reasons.

yes we do.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

yes we do.

Well I don't think we do. There is plenty of diverse cultures already here in our country. You live in London, so you must know.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

We don't do well in a footballing sense though do we? We havn't won anything internationally in half a century. Even our club sides don't do that well in Europe. Two CL wins is a poor return for the richest league in the world.

Now this isn't to say that we can't produce players of quality in this country. I don't think we do at the moment but there's no reason why we can't. The argument about moving overseas stems from the perceived lack of opportunity in this country due to the number of foreign players in the PL. If you want to reach the top of your profession you'll go to wherever you will improve as a player.

The England manager saga for instance. You had managers complaining about a lack of opportunity at the top teams. How many thought "bugger this then, I'm going abroad and will get to the top another way"? Bobby Robson did it, Hodgson has done it. Where are the rest? Coleman is having a go and I think it's great that he is.

You have the likes of Crouch, Defoe, Bent etc. who can't get games for their clubs, would they consider moving abroad to get a game, play regular CL football? The likes of David Platt, Des Walker and Paul Ince improved enormously from their spell in Italy at a time when Serie A was the best league in the world. Tell me that Woodgate wouldn't be a better player if he was still in the Real Madrid defence compared to the easy life in the Boro wastelands.

 

[neonleon]

Well I don't think we do. There is plenty of diverse cultures already here in our country. You live in London, so you must know.

sure, speaking to a chinese waiter in chinatown is not the same as living in China for a year. Buying a kebab of a turkish man is not the same as living in turkey.

Immersion in a foreign culture, being forced to learn the language. Eating their food, drinking their drink, making friends with locals is all part of the travelling experience which is culturally enriching and cannot in any wise be compared to learning a few words of a foreign language and then trying them down your local tapas bar.

This is predominantly one of the american excuses for not experiencing the world (apart from the military, they get to travel around), it is tantamount to ignorance and encourages insularism, which inevitably encourages suspicion and hatred of expressions of humanity that differ significantly from the familiar. Insularism and patriotic pride seem inevitably to lead to jingoism and xenophobia.

So while there are many possibilities to explore other cultures in England and as you say, particularly London - it is no replacement for experiencing other countries first hand. It is a second hand solution. You can;t learn everything about england by visiting San Antonio in Ibiza.

 

[neonleon]

We don't do well in a footballing sense though do we? We havn't won anything internationally in half a century. Even our club sides don't do that well in Europe. Two CL wins is a poor return for the richest league in the world.

Now this isn't to say that we can't produce players of quality in this country. I don't think we do at the moment but there's no reason why we can't. The argument about moving overseas stems from the perceived lack of opportunity in this country due to the number of foreign players in the PL. If you want to reach the top of your profession you'll go to wherever you will improve as a player.

The England manager saga for instance. You had managers complaining about a lack of opportunity at the top teams. How many thought "bugger this then, I'm going abroad and will get to the top another way"? Bobby Robson did it, Hodgson has done it. Where are the rest? Coleman is having a go and I think it's great that he is.

You have the likes of Crouch, Defoe, Bent etc. who can't get games for their clubs, would they consider moving abroad to get a game, play regular CL football? The likes of David Platt, Des Walker and Paul Ince improved enormously from their spell in Italy at a time when Serie A was the best league in the world. Tell me that Woodgate wouldn't be a better player if he was still in the Real Madrid defence compared to the easy life in the Boro wastelands.

you only have to look at Spain, Portugal, Brazil and Croatia (tenth in the world at the mo') - they have a diaspora of players scattered all over, largely to the benefit of their national teams.

 

[neonleon]

the england manager thing was particularly silly. you had people like Ince complaining at the lack of opportunities, clamouring to be considered for the england job. His credentials?

taking MK Dons to the top of League Two (i.e the fourth division) by xmas.

Capello?

Scudetto: 1991/92, 1992/93, 1993/94, 1995/96 (Milan); 2000/01 (Roma), [2004/05, 2005/06 (Juventus) later removed]
Runner-up: 2001/02, 2003/04 (Roma)
UEFA Champions League: 1994 (Milan 4–0 Barcelona)
Runner-up: 1993 (Marseille 1–0 Milan) 1995 (Ajax 1–0 Milan)
European Super Cup: 1994 (Milan 2–0 Arsenal)
Supercoppa Italiana: 1992, 1993, 1994 (Milan); 2001 (Roma)
Runner-up: 2005 (Juventus)
Coppa Italia Runner-up: 1997/98 (Milan); 2002/03 (Roma)
Spain:
La Liga: 1996/97; 2006/07 (Real Madrid)

I think we should've gone with Ince though...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Life is generally a challenge and it seems to be those that want to push themselves furthest succeed. There is an awful lot in England to lull people into complacency.

Players can earn a fortune being a reserve team player, or playing regularly for a no mark team. They can then earn an extra fortune in the commentary box being a pundit, or they can skip between management jobs at rubbish clubs ala Paul Jewell. They're rich financially but they havn't achieved anything.

There was an article posted up earlier about Richard Dunne and in it he said pretty much the same, that he'd grown complacent and lazy early in his career. Now he appreciates his position and works hard and he's a fine player making the most of his ability. Can you say the same about every player?

 

[GhostOfDixie]

the england manager thing was particularly silly. you had people like Ince complaining at the lack of opportunities, clamouring to be considered for the england job. His credentials?

taking MK Dons to the top of League Two (i.e the fourth division) by xmas.

Capello?

Scudetto: 1991/92, 1992/93, 1993/94, 1995/96 (Milan); 2000/01 (Roma), [2004/05, 2005/06 (Juventus) later removed]
Runner-up: 2001/02, 2003/04 (Roma)
UEFA Champions League: 1994 (Milan 4–0 Barcelona)
Runner-up: 1993 (Marseille 1–0 Milan) 1995 (Ajax 1–0 Milan)
European Super Cup: 1994 (Milan 2–0 Arsenal)
Supercoppa Italiana: 1992, 1993, 1994 (Milan); 2001 (Roma)
Runner-up: 2005 (Juventus)
Coppa Italia Runner-up: 1997/98 (Milan); 2002/03 (Roma)
Spain:
La Liga: 1996/97; 2006/07 (Real Madrid)

I think we should've gone with Ince though...

Yeah Ince was talking out of his arse wasn't he.

 

[neonleon]

Life is generally a challenge and it seems to be those that want to push themselves furthest succeed. There is an awful lot in England to lull people into complacency.

Players can earn a fortune being a reserve team player, or playing regularly for a no mark team. They can then earn an extra fortune in the commentary box being a pundit, or they can skip between management jobs at rubbish clubs ala Paul Jewell. They're rich financially but they havn't achieved anything.

There was an article posted up earlier about Richard Dunne and in it he said pretty much the same, that he'd grown complacent and lazy early in his career. Now he appreciates his position and works hard and he's a fine player making the most of his ability. Can you say the same about every player?

most players in the everton squad, thanks to Moyes' work ethic.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Most certainly the case. We were stagnant for a long time, and its only really since Moyes and Wyness to a point have been brought in, that the club is starting to look more healthy.