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north korea launch missile
- Thread starter teppic
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Never would have happened with Bush in charge.
Obama doesn't command the same respect. Bush had Putin and the boys firmly in their place.
Obama doesn't command the same respect. Bush had Putin and the boys firmly in their place.
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
They did fire at least one missile in 2006, which blew up.
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | North Korea's missile programme
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | North Korea's missile programme
Yeah, they did. Then Bush told them to behave;
_ Oct. 15, 2006: U.N. Security Council adopts Resolution 1718 condemning test, imposing sanctions and banning North Korea from activities related to its nuclear weapons program, including "their means of delivery and related materials."
_ July 14, 2007: North Korea shuts down its main Yongbyon reactor, later starts disabling it.
_ June 27, 2008: North Korea destroys cooling tower at Yongbyon.
Bush leaves...
"Right lads, time to get this s**t off the ground again...."
Be interesting to see how Obama responds. Sometimes, just sometimes... a speech wont solve the problem.
Blatant act of defiance, defiance Bush wouldn't have allowed.
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
Bush was a lame-duck for the last year of his presidency. Would the UN have even paid that much notice to him if he was still here? Remember, the UN is made up of 26 states, not just America.
Obama has just got a pet elected as general secretary (Rasmussen (the ******)). Let's see how the lot of them deal with things. It's way too early to claim that Obama is the weaker of the two regarding dealing with so-called rogue states.
Hardly Bushes fault that though.
Of course, and Obama knows that. I mean, all the goes on about is a collective, international response;
Waiting, and waiting, and waiting for all agree will never work. Never, as the second World War exemplified
Putin, Russia and North Korea quite clearly disagree.
But I do recognise it's too early which is why I said "It will be interesting to see how Obama responds". A speech calling for international response is one thing, when he doesn't get this response... lets see were he goes from there.
Or, as you said... they knew full well it was too late for him to have any impact.
Bush made the UN impose sanctions on N.Korea. Sanctions which they agreed under Bush, but on his way out, they have put two fingers up.
Lets see how Mr Obama responds. Might be worth reminding him that there has already been 'strong international action' - which has been ignored.
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
But it's hardly Obama's fault if NK is flexing its muscles. There has been widespread condemnation from all the surrounding countries of NK, and Obama has expressed concern, stating it to be a "provocative act". He has further said that he will immediately consult with allies, including Japan and SK, and members of the UN Security Council to bring matters before the Council.
I'm not sure what more he can do at this stage, or even whether Bush would have done anymore. Let's see what happens after discussions with the above have occurred.
Plus, at the end of the day, the Bush regime made zero impact on NK. It's still the same backward, corrupt state as it was when he came to power, but just probably more pished off.
If either of the two men could make a genuine difference to the political climate in NK, my guess that it would be the latter president rather than the former.
"What more can Obama do?"
"Bush regime made zero impact on N.Korea"
Double standards there Neb
Bush, through the UN, enforced regulations on N.Korea, which no doubt served as international justification of war should Korea have broken such regulations.
As the leader of the strongest nation, Obama needs to show a bit more authority. You can't just keep calling for international action.
"Bush regime made zero impact on N.Korea"
Double standards there Neb
Bush, through the UN, enforced regulations on N.Korea, which no doubt served as international justification of war should Korea have broken such regulations.
As the leader of the strongest nation, Obama needs to show a bit more authority. You can't just keep calling for international action.
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
"What more can Obama do?"
"Bush regime made zero impact on N.Korea"
Double standards there Neb
Bush, through the UN, enforced regulations on N.Korea, which no doubt served as international justification of war should Korea have broken such regulations.
As the leader of the strongest nation, Obama needs to show a bit more authority. You can't just keep calling for international action.
But Obama is seeking to address this through the UN. So at the moment, he's doing exactly the same as Bush.
As I said, NK realised under Bush, the UN regulations served as international justification of war should Korea have broken such regulations.
Under Obama, these regulations have been broken. What now?
How many times is it going to be addressed through the UN with calls for an international response?
All this is effectively doing is granting further time to N.Korea. The same "call for international action" principle allowed for the second World War.
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
So what are you suggesting Obama does?
At the least, any plan of action needs to be clarified with other members states as to whether its legal or not.
There could be certain pressures put on NK via various sanctions. If it it clear that NK acted in breach of the earlier sanctions, I suppose there the must be some recourse that Obama and other nations can take.
But as well, you're placing all this on the shoulders of the US. There are other countries that are involved in all of this process. The US can't just do as it pleases.
North Korea has a long and fairly succesful tradition of brinkmanship with regards to nuclear related activity. Every time they need petrol or food or whatever it is to keep their economy from flatlining, they indulge a little activity like this just to remind the world they still exist.
To a degree it's not really Obama's problem. The major influence on North Korea is China, and to a degree Pyongyang is beholden to them.
I think the idea that North Korea would seriously consider using a nuclear weapon is fanciful. There's no real situation where attacking with nuclear weapons gasins you any advantaqe, because you're reduced to a pile of radioactive ash about an hour later (unless you've got some kind of missile defence shield like the US is building, which DOES give you the ability to attack whoever you want). You have nuclear weapons to ensure that no-one ever thinks about using one on you, and to stop anyone overthrowing your government from outside. The North Koreans aren't stupid, and don't have a deathwish.
And with regard to Bush "knowing how to deal with North Korea" the stance he took with probably had the effect of driving them down the nuclear route. If you hunt around on google then there's plenty of articles relating to how poorly negotiations with the Koreans were handled in the Bush era.
To a degree it's not really Obama's problem. The major influence on North Korea is China, and to a degree Pyongyang is beholden to them.
I think the idea that North Korea would seriously consider using a nuclear weapon is fanciful. There's no real situation where attacking with nuclear weapons gasins you any advantaqe, because you're reduced to a pile of radioactive ash about an hour later (unless you've got some kind of missile defence shield like the US is building, which DOES give you the ability to attack whoever you want). You have nuclear weapons to ensure that no-one ever thinks about using one on you, and to stop anyone overthrowing your government from outside. The North Koreans aren't stupid, and don't have a deathwish.
And with regard to Bush "knowing how to deal with North Korea" the stance he took with probably had the effect of driving them down the nuclear route. If you hunt around on google then there's plenty of articles relating to how poorly negotiations with the Koreans were handled in the Bush era.
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