bill i don't dispute your first two facts, and while i agree with the third statement you listed, that is not a fact. people have different concepts of what justice is, you cannot make the blanket statement that an argument is fact just because you believe. since i agree with you on that though, we shouldn't beat it to death
like i said, its what we do with those facts that is important. my OPINION related to those facts is that the invading Afghanistan was justifiable, but that if an action is so easily justifiable, seeking international approval of said action should be easy as well. while i think an invasion eventually would have been necessary, it is my opinion (speculation is ALWAYS opinion) that had we exhausted the diplomatic process before turning to arms, the afghani people would have been more accepting of our presence.
it is also my opinion that we should have simply sought to retrieve harbored al qaeuda members, not to take over the entire country. while it is my opinion, there is strong cultural evidence to suggest that many people in the middle east will oppose a government guided by american ideals just on principle, out of hatred for western ideas. i feel that most conservatives exhibit a lack of sensitivity to the culture of the middle east.
it is my opinion that the war in Iraq was not a justifiable action (though i believe this 100%, i would never have the arrogance to call it fact the way you do), it was an unprovoked attack which offended the entire international community, it was unilateral action that sets a dangerous precedent. i was against the war from day one, and i still believe it was a miserable failure, the time and resources invested in it, and the lives lost as a result on both sides are absolutely not worth it.
it is an issue of dispute, but i strongly believe that for every civilian you kill, you create atleast one terrorist. all the war in iraq has accomplished is supplying terrorist groups with propaganda with which to breed the next generation of terrorists.
now, since you're so interested in facts, lets talk about some facts:
fact: The United States aided britain in staging a coup to remove Mohammed Mossadegh, democratically elected prime minister of iran. his replacement could not control the populace and his weakness gave rise to the ayatollah.
fact: Sadaam Hussein was once a close allie of the United States, and the United States were instrumental in his ascension to power
fact: The United States contributed hundreds of millions of dollars to the afghan mujahideen when they were fighting the soviets, one of their most prominent leaders was Osama Bin Laden
fact: The United States have given nearly 8 billion dollars to Pakistan in the form of military aid since 9/11
now back to opinions, can you see a pattern here? we allie ourselves with the lesser of two evils, and it comes back to haunt us later on. this is why it is my opinion that US involvement in the middle east should be limited and reserved, that we should stop sending billions of dollars in aid not only to pakistan who are quickly becoming our enemy, but also to the powderkeg israel because they are a developed nation and our actions only antagonize countries that are volatile as is.
you make claims that liberalism is based on emotion, i'm interested to here you point out where my arguments are emotionally fueled, where are they illogical
what i do see as emotional is the sentiment that they got us so we need to get them back, the childish notion that somehow invading other countries will rectify the tragedy of 9/11, even if there is no link whatsoever between them
you can never remove emotions completely from politics, we are all human afterall, but to dismiss the ideals of one side of a debate as all rooted in emotion is just absurd. get off your high horse for christ sake.
and as for fox's bias, did you watch the video? there's a difference between being critical of obama, and mis-quoting and misrepresenting speeches he's made, as well as discussions of that said speech. the mainstream media has been very critical of the bailout plan on all counts, though i'm sure theres no point in even pointing that out to you because all you're going to say is "thats because its fact" or something to that effect. it'd be nice if you could understand that the notions of right and wrong are never factual.
look when i watch nbc and cbs, i don't percieve a liberal bias myself, but i can understand that its because i'm liberal, and therefore its difficult for me to make a fair assessment of bias. is it so hard to believe that you might be in the same boat with faux news?
