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Paulo Fonseca

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FTY said:
You never called him a no mark before he called out RM tho, so there's the agenda right there

Harry Kane hasn't won anything btw is he a no mark?
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Until they win something all those like Alli and Kane are unsuccessful. Isn't that the general view of them that if they dont win anything they haven't achieved? I think it is, and that's my assessment too.
 
Bryan said:
Had the chance to go to UTD, AND a few other clubs during arguably his best period Dave, this was well known. He chose to forgo trophies to stay at Everton, why? Probably the same reason we choose to follow Everton. A man of principles maybe? Wanted to be known for some ounce of integrity rather than chasing the money.

He could have doubled(?) his wages and won a trophy. Hardly a no mark to many Evertonians.
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He was stopped from going. That's what happened. Martinez wouldn't release him for playing purposes and Kenwright wouldn't for financial reasons (Utd didn't offer enough). He resented that, no doubt in my mind. And he resented competition for his place from Oviedo and then Galloway. That United chance falling through was a source of much anger for him imo.

Anyway, I've just become aware the thread is supposed to be about Fonseca, so I'll happily continue any discussion of Baines in his thread.
 

davek said:
He was stopped from going. That's what happened. Martinez wouldn't release him for playing purposes and Kenwright wouldn't for financial reasons (Utd didn't offer enough). He resented that, no doubt in my mind. And he resented competition for his place from Oviedo and then Galloway. That United chance falling through was a source of much anger for him imo.

Anyway, I've just become aware the thread is supposed to be about Fonseca, so I'll happily continue any discussion of Baines in his thread.
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You know Leighton personally do you? You also you know bobby and bill personally ?
 
davek said:
He's a no mark. It's not a moral condemnation or even a go at his former abilities (exaggerated beyond belief through they were). It's a statement of fact. The feller won nothing. He is, at the end of the day, an ex-Wigan Athletic player who formed a good partnership with the hardworking Pienaar for a few seasons at Everton.

That is it.
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Dave, I generally enjoy your frequently contentious views and the spleen you often display in your posts. There have been many times I have disagreed with you initially only to realise you were largely correct. Even when I continue to hold the opposite opinion I often have to admit your argument at least holds a kernel of truth.
But this vendetta against someone who has been and remains an outstanding player does you no credit, especially as the above post shows you were once an admirer.
Was he disloyal? Yes up to point. But by the time he made his mildly critical comments the man in question had lost the support of most of the fans anyway with what was perceived as poor tactics.
Baines in most people's opinion displayed loyalty to Everton Football Club , something far bigger than any player , chairman or indeed any manager.
Now, has Fonseca arrived yet?
 
davek said:
He was stopped from going. That's what happened. Martinez wouldn't release him for playing purposes and Kenwright wouldn't for financial reasons (Utd didn't offer enough). He resented that, no doubt in my mind. And he resented competition for his place from Oviedo and then Galloway. That United chance falling through was a source of much anger for him imo.

Anyway, I've just become aware the thread is supposed to be about Fonseca, so I'll happily continue any discussion of Baines in his thread.
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Might as well discuss Baines I've a feeling Fonseca will become the new Riquelme.
 
Eggsyblueskin said:
Dave, I generally enjoy your frequently contentious views and the spleen you often display in your posts. There have been many times I have disagreed with you initially only to realise you were largely correct. Even when I continue to hold the opposite opinion I often have to admit your argument at least holds a kernel of truth.
But this vendetta against someone who has been and remains an outstanding player does you no credit, especially as the above post shows you were once an admirer.
Was he disloyal? Yes up to point. But by the time he made his mildly critical comments the man in question had lost the support of most of the fans anyway with what was perceived as poor tactics.
Baines in most people's opinion displayed loyalty to Everton Football Club , something far bigger than any player , chairman or indeed any manager.
Now, has Fonseca arrived yet?
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This really should be in his thread not here. Just a final word on this here though: it's my assessment that he and his coterie of senior pros at the club represent a stark danger to any new manager coming in and should be punted. On top of that, he is finished as a consistent and reliable PL player.

If you or others want to continue the discussion mate, maybe respond in here: https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/...eed-to-go-before-we-can-prosper.103225/page-7
 

davek said:
Back when he was playing well he was my favourite player (so much for the view I have an "agenda" against him).

Do I need to spell it out what a "no mark" is? Just for clarity: it;s a player that has NOTHING in their medal box. Not a sausage. And that's what Baines has - an empty medal box.
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...but quite a few international caps?
 
davek said:
He's a no mark. It's not a moral condemnation or even a go at his former abilities (exaggerated beyond belief through they were). It's a statement of fact. The feller won nothing. He is, at the end of the day, an ex-Wigan Athletic player who formed a good partnership with the hardworking Pienaar for a few seasons at Everton.

That is it.
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Golden rule Dave, when you are in a hole stop digging. Just back away from the shovel.
 

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