Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

  • Participation within this subforum is only available to members who have had 5+ posts approved elsewhere.

Pele

Status
Not open for further replies.
longers said:
Hope he gets better but always find it mad how people can claim he is the greatest when they never actually watched him play apart from a few times every four years at a world cup, most of these people probably only watched highlights as well.

It's basically just repeating other people's opinions. Literally, no one here ever watched him play a club match because foreign football was not televised back then. Same goes for Maradona (albeit to a lesser extent) when you have people telling you of all the amazing things he did at Napoli.... lads you never watched him at Napoli, the games weren't televised, you're just repeating soundbites and pretending you witnessed it yourself (@davek :p)

At least with modern football you can now watch every game in every country if you chose to and build your own informed opinions rather than relying on history lessons to tell you why someone was the best ever.

im gonna take this post into proper controversial terrirtory now... buckle up

Its a bit like when we refer to ourselves as the school of science and the amazing football we played, then you go and watch the Bayern semi-final and the quality of football isnt actually that great and visually looks miles behind modern football :p

*ducks for cover*
Click to expand...
How you measure greatness is always subjective and with that in mind it's hard to disagree with anything you say.
Those of a certain age, of which I am one, can only say that from 1958 until 1970 there was nobody more who you wanted to watch on a world stage knowing you would see a master at work. Mexico in 1970 never been bettered.
 
tommytowne said:
How you measure greatness is always subjective and with that in mind it's hard to disagree with anything you say.
Those of a certain age, of which I am one, can only say that from 1958 until 1970 there was nobody more who you wanted to watch on a world stage knowing you would see a master at work. Mexico in 1970 never been bettered.
Click to expand...

My post reads back overly harsh tbh.

Im sure he was the best of his generation, all his peers seem confident of it and you can't argue with that, same goes for 3 world cups. It's just the conviction with which some claim him the best whilst not really having witnessed him play much that throws me a bit.

It's a shame there isn't lots of high-quality footage of football pre-90s, all the clips of Pele most likely don't do him justice although I guess the lack of footage also increases the mystique a little. It's the complete opposite to say Messi who has their entire career archived in video format readily available to the masses via the internet.
 
tommytowne said:
How you measure greatness is always subjective and with that in mind it's hard to disagree with anything you say.
Those of a certain age, of which I am one, can only say that from 1958 until 1970 there was nobody more who you wanted to watch on a world stage knowing you would see a master at work. Mexico in 1970 never been bettered.
Click to expand...

Plus international football was the peak of the game back then and every World Cup from 58 onwards was mostly televised in full, so it’s easy to find the footage

It’s not like a modern football fan can’t find some of Pele’s best performances
 
longers said:
Hope he gets better but always find it mad how people can claim he is the greatest when they never actually watched him play apart from a few times every four years at a world cup, most of these people probably only watched highlights as well.

It's basically just repeating other people's opinions. Literally, no one here ever watched him play a club match because foreign football was not televised back then. Same goes for Maradona (albeit to a lesser extent) when you have people telling you of all the amazing things he did at Napoli.... lads you never watched him at Napoli, the games weren't televised, you're just repeating soundbites and pretending you witnessed it yourself (@davek :p)

At least with modern football you can now watch every game in every country if you chose to and build your own informed opinions rather than relying on history lessons to tell you why someone was the best ever.

im gonna take this post into proper controversial terrirtory now... buckle up

Its a bit like when we refer to ourselves as the school of science and the amazing football we played, then you go and watch the Bayern semi-final and the quality of football isnt actually that great and visually looks miles behind modern football :p

*ducks for cover*
Click to expand...

You don't have to see someone to know they are the best - for you personally anyhow, it is all subjective and there isn't one concrete winner.

A cursory look at his stats and the treatment he used to get gives you a fair idea of who he was as a player.

It's like being asked who is the greatest Everton forward of all time and picking Jo because you never saw Dixie.
 
longers said:
My post reads back overly harsh tbh.

Im sure he was the best of his generation, all his peers seem confident of it and you can't argue with that, same goes for 3 world cups. It's just the conviction with which some claim him the best whilst not really having witnessed him play much that throws me a bit.

It's a shame there isn't lots of high-quality footage of football pre-90s, all the clips of Pele etc most likely don't do him justice although I guess the lack of footage also increases the mystique a little.
Click to expand...
Funnily enough my most sincere memory was of him missing a goal. He went through one on one with the keeper and he let the ball continue to his right and Pele went the other side with the keeper following him. With the defenders rushing to defend the near post he shot to the far post just grazing the paintwork before going out for a goal kick.
 

The binman chronicles said:
You don't have to see someone to know they are the best - for you personally anyhow, it is all subjective and there isn't one concrete winner.

A cursory look at his stats and the treatment he used to get gives you a fair idea of who he was as a player.

It's like being asked who is the greatest Everton forward of all time and picking Jo because you never saw Dixie.
Click to expand...

Best of their generation sure, but claiming with lots of confidence that they are the best ever (up against all the greats of the game) when you've only really seen them play a handful of games isn't really the same as trying to claim Jo was better than Dixie !
 
Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Plus international football was the peak of the game back then and every World Cup from 58 onwards was mostly televised in full, so it’s easy to find the footage

It’s not like a modern football fan can’t find some of Pele’s best performances
Click to expand...

Had a video growing up of all his career goals, even back then it wasn’t that hard to watch Pele, now it’s simple, it’s not the third secret of Fatima to have watched him play, hours of Santos games on YouTube.

You could make the point about one of the best ever like Ferenc Puskás, even then you can loads of his Ferencváros games never mind his Real ones, you just have to make the effort to do it.

Anyway wrong thread for it.

All the best to the greatest.
 

longers said:
Its a bit like when we refer to ourselves as the school of science and the amazing football we played, then you go and watch the Bayern semi-final and the quality of football isnt actually that great and visually looks miles behind modern football :p
Click to expand...
Horses for courses. The game has changed immeasurably since the 80s, and likewise the game changed immeasurably for the time before it.

That's what makes comparing footballers of different generations very difficult, so we measure them on the success of their time versus those of their time.

It's like Dixie Dean's record: he scored sixty-one season and forty-four in another. You could say defences have got better and players more athletic.

Yet, in his time, he scored more than anyone else, more than anyone after and lots with his head when a ball was much heavier and harder.

There'll be strikers who are arguably more technically talented footballer than Dean ever was, but it's a different measure so we praise him on his merit.

The 80s side is the best side I've seen play, although the footballer since may have at times been slicker, more accurate or whatnot.
 
longers said:
Hope he gets better but always find it mad how people can claim he is the greatest when they never actually watched him play apart from a few times every four years at a world cup, most of these people probably only watched highlights as well.

It's basically just repeating other people's opinions. Literally, no one here ever watched him play a club match because foreign football was not televised back then. Same goes for Maradona (albeit to a lesser extent) when you have people telling you of all the amazing things he did at Napoli.... lads you never watched him at Napoli, the games weren't televised, you're just repeating soundbites and pretending you witnessed it yourself (@davek :p)

At least with modern football you can now watch every game in every country if you chose to and build your own informed opinions rather than relying on history lessons to tell you why someone was the best ever.

im gonna take this post into proper controversial terrirtory now... buckle up

Its a bit like when we refer to ourselves as the school of science and the amazing football we played, then you go and watch the Bayern semi-final and the quality of football isnt actually that great and visually looks miles behind modern football :p

*ducks for cover*
Click to expand...
As I don't watch La Liga or the Champions League I can only come to the conclusion that Messi is crap. I have never seen him have a great game.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.

Register
Back
Top