PL2 or Central League

[Eggs]

I'd be in favour of an open age reserve league rather than U23 but with the number of subs there are sat on the bench nowadays I can't see too many fringe players being risked playing a reserve game. A couple of injuries and the manager might have to resort to putting two goalkeepers on his bench!

And I'm not sure too many of our out of favour 'superstars' would be keen on turning out.

....really good point, Mick. I remember when the Reserves & first team both played at 3pm every Saturday afternoon.

I suppose the likes of Besic & Bolasie could’ve been regular reserves because they were never involved in 1st team squads.

 

[Goat]

....really good point, Mick. I remember when the Reserves & first team both played at 3pm every Saturday afternoon.

I suppose the likes of Besic & Bolasie could’ve been regular reserves because they were never involved in 1st team squads.

For what benefit?

Who benefits from that?

Certainly not the player or the club, in the case of Bolaise hes out there earning the club money.

Besic is just sitting at home getting paid, not getting injured.

Who benefits?

 

[Eggs]

For what benefit?

Who benefits from that?

Certainly not the player or the club, in the case of Bolaise hes out there earning the club money.

Besic is just sitting at home getting paid, not getting injured.

Who benefits?

....my primary focus here is on the development of young footballers. I think it benefits them greatly playing with and against seasoned professionals. I’m citing those two as an example at Everton ( not instead of being on loan but when they are here and not involved)but playing against similar outcasts at other clubs would benefit younger players.

I’ve watched Lancashire League games at Everton where the likes of Bracewell and Van den Hauwe were playing, i saw Jamie Redknapp having a run out at Bellefield against us.

There was an atmosphere at Goodison Reserve games, they were competitive. The intended beneficiaries of open-age reserve team football is youngsters.

Thats the suggestion I’m making.

 

[Terrarian]

It's not about getting muddy haha. You sign with a club expecting one thing and 6 months later they can have a new manager who doesn't want to play you and spend 3 years not playing and being told to look for loans to here there and everywhere but you're supposed to be completely loyal through all of it.

Clubs don't look out for players, why should they be required to look out for the club?

I'd like to clarify as well, reserve football is for the kids mainly but used as a tool for fitness and match practise for first teamers coming back from injury, I'm not suggesting they be stuck in the reserves to rot.

 

[Goat]

....my primary focus here is on the development of young footballers. I think it benefits them greatly playing with and against seasoned professionals. I’m citing those two as an example at Everton ( not instead of being on loan but when they are here and not involved)but playing against similar outcasts at other clubs would benefit younger players.

I’ve watched Lancashire League games at Everton where the likes of Bracewell and Van den Hauwe were playing, i saw Jamie Redknapp having a run out at Bellefield against us.

There was an atmosphere at Goodison Reserve games, they were competitive. The intended beneficiaries of open-age reserve team football is youngsters.

Thats the suggestion I’m making.

I dont see how to it benefits youngsters playing against people like Besic who wont give a toss.

Currently all the "better" youngsters go out on loan and learn at proper clubs in proper leagues.

The old reserve teams gave players returning from injury a chance for a run out but with how modern teams are they can just get an 11v11 on the go at FF anytime they want.

 

[Jimishorts]

....my primary focus here is on the development of young footballers.

Wouldn’t it potentially stop youngsters from getting a game, if you were to drop them in favour of playing Besic and Bolasie tho?

 

[Terrarian]

what was it we used too call them, was it ringers?

 

[Alan Whittle]

The Academy based games seem to develop technical skills and tactical awareness but lack intensity. I watch the Palace lads @ U18 & U 23 and they look like exhibition games.It is a huge jump into the first team and I think that is why so many technically gifted youngsters drift down the pyramid and out of the game - managers lack the faith that they can step up into that level. It makes no financial sense unless more players come through. I think @Eggs point is a good one.

 

[Eggs]

Wouldn’t it potentially stop youngsters from getting a game, if you were to drop them in favour of playing Besic and Bolasie tho?

....that was very much the argument that generated PL2. I recall Sammy Lee managing the Reds reserves and continually selecting himself, so it’s a very fair point.

i feel we sign many young professionals to fulfil fixtures at that level. Not too many will be seen as prospective first teamers, so there shouldn’t really be a blockage. The best will come through and will be better for the experience of proving themselves in open-age football.

 

[Eggs]

I dont see how to it benefits youngsters playing against people like Besic who wont give a toss.

Currently all the "better" youngsters go out on loan and learn at proper clubs in proper leagues.

The old reserve teams gave players returning from injury a chance for a run out but with how modern teams are they can just get an 11v11 on the go at FF anytime they want.

...I think that’s an incorrect stereotypical view of professionals. It wasn’t too long ago Unsworth was heaping praise on Niasse for his attitude supporting younger players when he played a few U23 games. I don’t know Besic, but he’s a seasoned international and might offer more than you suggest.

No doubt some might have the wrong attitude, but most experienced professionals still have pride and some will have a point to prove.

I once watched Molby playing for the Reds at Melwood against our youngsters & he was terrific. One defender launched a clearance down field & you could clearly hear Molby say to him “count one, two, three four. That’s how long you had to pick out a pass rather than hoof that upfield”.

 

[Street end man]

Who knows how the likes of Tosun would have progressed playing bi weekly football at Goodison in front of a couple of thousand fans.....nowhere for guys like that to gain any confidence or guile playing two touch on the training pitch or making up numbers on the bench.

 

[Tipp blue]

I'm not sure modern footballers would take to playing reserves matches

The poor pets.

 

[Philw]

My guess is the "Big 6" would prefer to have their B teams in the pyramid like other countries do

Defo. I'd like it for us too. Would be good for the big teams, but suck for teams lower down the pyramid I think.

 

[blueloon]

Posters of an older vintage will remember pre-Academy days of Everton A & B teams playing in the Lancashire Leagues and the Reserves in the old Central League. None of this football was age restricted & increasingly I’ve been debating to myself whether PL2 is actually fit for purpose, or whether a return to Central League format might be a better development route for our youngsters.

In recent times I noticed how our U23 team struggled playing against foreign youngsters who compete weekly in open-age football. The old Central League was where your fringe 1st teamers and those coming back from injury played games with a real competitive edge. They were joined by promising youngsters playing alongside and against seasoned professionals. A great learning ground.

Critics suggested the older pro’s were blocking the path for youngsters coming through & PL2 was born, but now there are voices suggesting this format is uncompetitive with youngsters playing in a comfort zone & not being stretched.

With no age restricted fixtures to complete at U23, a re-structuring would maybe allow clubs to better manage the number of young professionals they keep. The most promising rewarded with contracts, allowing them to be tested in a competitive open-age league.

My suggestion is maintaining the Academy system but re-introducing an open-age element to replace existing PL2 format.

Sorry but I’ve never understood this misty eyed nostalgia for the Central League, it’s from a bygone era, might as well get the kids back on apprenticeships , cleaning the first team players boots , that’ll learn em . The majority of posts seem to be about whether older players will play or not , nobody’s put forward a good argument that it benefits our young players , maybe it’ll help the 2 or 3 who get to play, but what about the rest ?

Your comment “ In recent times I noticed how our U23 team struggled playing against foreign youngsters who compete weekly in open-age football.” is an odd one for me. Years ago the constant complaint was that our youngsters were technically miles behind compared to foreign youngsters of the same age because they were asked to play alongside and against bigger older players who outmuscled them , kicked them off the park , so they didn’t have chance to develop technical skills , the Central League and Southern equivalents were lambasted at the time. From this came the Academies with proper training in skills and a chance to develop those skill against players their own age.

Its an interesting debate that you’ve raised mate, and to be in honest I don’t have an answer as to what would radically improve the current situation, I just don’t think returning to the past is the way forward for the future.

 

[Eggs]

Sorry but I’ve never understood this misty eyed nostalgia for the Central League, it’s from a bygone era, might as well get the kids back on apprenticeships , cleaning the first team players boots , that’ll learn em . The majority of posts seem to be about whether older players will play or not , nobody’s put forward a good argument that it benefits our young players , maybe it’ll help the 2 or 3 who get to play, but what about the rest ?

Your comment “ In recent times I noticed how our U23 team struggled playing against foreign youngsters who compete weekly in open-age football.” is an odd one for me. Years ago the constant complaint was that our youngsters were technically miles behind compared to foreign youngsters of the same age because they were asked to play alongside and against bigger older players who outmuscled them , kicked them off the park , so they didn’t have chance to develop technical skills , the Central League and Southern equivalents were lambasted at the time. From this came the Academies with proper training in skills and a chance to develop those skill against players their own age.

Its an interesting debate that you’ve raised mate, and to be in honest I don’t have an answer as to what would radically improve the current situation, I just don’t think returning to the past is the way forward for the future.

....it’s about over 18s being exposed to open-age format earlier than now. i recall recently our U23s qualifying for a European competition and floundering against their counterparts. It wasn’t so much about skill levels, but almost all of the teams they played were in domestic open-age leagues in their own countries.

Hopefully, I’m not a backwards thinking reactionary. I know PL2 has been described as ‘uncompetitive’ and unchallenging with youngsters playing within their comfort zone. I’m trying to be forward thinking. I understand some folk are nervous of change. I mentioned ‘Central League’ but it doesn’t have to be exactly that format, perhaps there are lessons to be learned from what happens abroad.