Players Out on Loan 2022/23

[catcherintherye]

….the reality of loans involving Everton youngsters is being seen & much as I have been suggesting. Pinching a line off @catcherintherye, sending youngsters on loan ‘is not a solution’. It’s not a La La Land where youngsters go & come back ready for PL action.

The reality is most will struggle for game time. I’m not against the loan system per se but for our Academy youngsters it’s more often than not the end of their chances at Everton.

Yes very fair.

I'm not against loans, but they are not a one size fits all approach. The reality is, they are either going to be good enough to train and play with the first team, or they're not. The ones that aren't will either be released or sent on loan. There are some exceptions, but that's how it works. Gordon won't be loaned, Simms will.

 

[Nymzee]

Yes very fair.

I'm not against loans, but they are not a one size fits all approach. The reality is, they are either going to be good enough to train and play with the first team, or they're not. The ones that aren't will either be released or sent on loan. There are some exceptions, but that's how it works. Gordon won't be loaned, Simms will.

Gordon was loaned out?

 

[catcherintherye]

I agree with all the above and the comments of @catcherintherye . Unfortunately, though, U23 football is totally inadequate for preparing youngsters for the rigours of 'men's football', whether that's PL or the lower divisions. Only the outstandingly talented can make the leap from youth to PL football, and they are few and far between.

I don't think the people at Everton are daft enough to send a youngster out on loan thinking that it's going to be easy for them and, no matter how they play, they are going to be in the team every week. They are surely looking for clubs playing at a level where they think the players will be challenged but have a chance of succeeding. They got that spot on with Warrington at Tranmere, and hopefully at Fleetwood this year.

As for Onyango, as I've said before I'm not surprised he's lost his place at Burton. His challenge is to adapt to a tough competitive league rather than gliding through U23 games, showing occasional glimpses of ability then disappearing for the rest of the game. I'm sure the coaches who sent him out on loan knew that, just as most of us who've watched him at junior levels would.

It's not the end of the world for a player if they have a bad loan. There are many examples of that, the most notable for us being Gordon at Preston. Players can still learn from that experience - some will, some won't. Others will find their level at a lower league, but the odd one will still have a chance of making it with us.

By the way, I've been following the progress of Thierry Small, now on loan at Port Vale. Not going too well, only started one game when he was substituted after 70 mins, made a few sub appearances but hasn't been in the squad for the last few games (don't know if he's injured).

Yes all very fair mate.

Maybe the thought with Onyango is that going to fight for a place, face adversity will help him. At some point in life, you have to put people in at the deep end, and see how they do when they face adversity. He probably learns more from being out on loan, than playing 23's.

The reality is, most under 21's at most clubs will not have a professional career, never mind a career at a PL team. It's a game for finding the exception.

Re Small, I think he made a mistake leaving. He had made first team minutes here, and two years on, he's a bench filler at a league 1 team, having really not been any closer to Southampton. I don't doubt that he got a big wage increase and a large sign on fee to move, but from a career perspective it has not been a good move. Maybe the coaches at Everton made the right decision in not paying very large wages on him (relatively speaking).

 

[catcherintherye]

Gordon was loaned out?

He was yes, when he was not good enough to play in the first team.

He's quite an interesting example. You can draw two conclusions really, you don't need to be excelling on loan to develop, or actually having a manager that believes in you and wants to use you trumps being sent on loan. There's credible arguments for either.

The wider argument is though, our under 21's is not filled with players who would dominate the championship at age 19/20 as might some suggest.

 

[Nymzee]

He was yes, when he was not good enough to play in the first team.

He's quite an interesting example. You can draw two conclusions really, you don't need to be excelling on loan to develop, or actually having a manager that believes in you and wants to use you trumps being sent on loan. There's credible arguments for either.

The wider argument is though, our under 21's is not filled with players who would dominate the championship at age 19/20 as might some suggest.

I mean, loans are good, whether they play or not for me. It’s a new environment to develop as a man, to fight for a place, to train with more physical players etc. I love U21’s football but it just isn’t good enough to set someone up.

Our best recent prospects (Barkley, Gordon, Coleman etc.) have all gone out on loans except for those clearly not needing them like Rooney and Rodwell.

 

[catcherintherye]

….the reality of loans involving Everton youngsters is being seen & much as I have been suggesting. Pinching a line off @catcherintherye, sending youngsters on loan ‘is not a solution’. It’s not a La La Land where youngsters go & come back ready for PL action.

The reality is most will struggle for game time. I’m not against the loan system per se but for our Academy youngsters it’s more often than not the end of their chances at Everton.

Best case scenario is it toughens them up. Worst case scenario, you send a teenager into a mans game that is remarkably different to PL football/ethos and they are flummoxed. It's worlds away from the comfort zone. That has some value, but it can also have drawbacks.

I've seen Lawrence got over 10k per week at City, wouldn't be surprised if Small was on more at Southampton. You send him on loan to Port Vale to play with a bunch of guys who might be on 1k basic with 1-2k in associated bonuses it's worlds apart. You can undrstand why sides are wary of taking loans on board.

 

[catcherintherye]

I mean, loans are good, whether they play or not for me. It’s a new environment to develop as a man, to fight for a place, to train with more physical players etc. I love U21’s football but it just isn’t good enough to set someone up.

Our best recent prospects (Barkley, Gordon, Coleman etc.) have all gone out on loans except for those clearly not needing them like Rooney and Rodwell.

I think there's a clear case that Coleman (and Osman) really benefitted from their loan experience. I'm not sure it's as clear cut as Gordon/Barkley.

I'm not against loans, with Onyango people seem surprised he's not playing every week. It doesn't surprise me. If he was that good, he would be in and around our squad. League 1 football is still tough, and well beyond most under 21's PL players.

 

[Nymzee]

I think there's a clear case that Coleman (and Osman) really benefitted from their loan experience. I'm not sure it's as clear cut as Gordon/Barkley.

I'm not against loans, with Onyango people seem surprised he's not playing every week. It doesn't surprise me. If he was that good, he would be in and around our squad. League 1 football is still tough, and well beyond most under 21's PL players.

From our loanees the only ones I see having a chance of playing here are Branthwaite, Dobbin & Warrington. The rest may as well have been sold.

 

[catcherintherye]

From our loanees the only ones I see having a chance of playing here are Branthwaite, Dobbin & Warrington. The rest may as well have been sold.

I'm not convinced on Warrington mate, but honestly hope they all prove me wrong. I'm not someone who knocks our young players, but that's just my opinion.

The issue with selling, is who is going to pay any money for them? Championship clubs are skint. PL clubs have no interest with our caste offs. I think we just have to be more clearer on when we are releasing players.

 

[mightymoyes]

Hes nowhere near Rodwell level to be honest. Rodwell was a very good footballer, a great athlete, was sold for huge money to City and had international caps. If Onyango has a career close to Rodwell we will have done well.

Well maybe aim for the first 3rd of rodwells career, pretty abysmal after that but got very, very well paid

 

[Nymzee]

I'm not convinced on Warrington mate, but honestly hope they all prove me wrong. I'm not someone who knocks our young players, but that's just my opinion.

The issue with selling, is who is going to pay any money for them? Championship clubs are skint. PL clubs have no interest with our caste offs. I think we just have to be more clearer on when we are releasing players.

Any money is good money. You’ll get into the thousands for them at least from the lower leagues. Higher than going on a free + development fees anyway.

 

[Sona]

Jarrad Branthwaite starts for PSV at home to Feyenoord. Good luck Jarrad ?

 

[Lanolin]

He was yes, when he was not good enough to play in the first team.

He's quite an interesting example. You can draw two conclusions really, you don't need to be excelling on loan to develop, or actually having a manager that believes in you and wants to use you trumps being sent on loan. There's credible arguments for either.

The wider argument is though, our under 21's is not filled with players who would dominate the championship at age 19/20 as might some suggest.

I think a big takeaway from the Gordon situation should be that it’s ok to have setbacks. Gordon was clearly highly rated, he’d had chances in our first team and he went out to a good level; it was clear that he was going to have a career at a good level at that point, the question was just how high he could go. Whether the loan was a good or a bad thing for him, it serves to highlight that everything won’t always be plain sailing for these lads.

 

[Wizard]

 

[Nymzee]

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