Premier League clubs to discuss radical changes to FA Cup and League Cup

[Black Belt Jones]

This. If the game is just going to bend over backwards for them and get rid of everything that made it special then what's the point? 86 is a bigger number than 6, last I checked.

We, in the form of Philip Carter, campaigned for a super league and special treatment for a decade - he was the original architect of the premier league more than anyone. Big clubs should not be subsidising small clubs - his words.
Hard to feel much outrage now the shoe is on the other foot.

To be fair to Sir Phil, the football league / football association was a complete anachronistic mess that had to be reformed, with nothing like the money in the game that there is now. So it wasn't the same bare-assed greed that we see driving today's super league aspirations - but it was basically the same argument.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

We, in the form of Philip Carter, campaigned for a super league and special treatment for a decade - he was the original architect of the premier league more than anyone. Big clubs should not be subsidising small clubs - his words.
Hard to feel much outrage now the shoe is on the other foot.

To be fair to Sir Phil, the football league / football association was a complete anachronistic mess that had to be reformed, with nothing like the money in the game that there is now. So it wasn't the same bare-assed greed that we see driving today's super league aspirations - but it was basically the same argument.

The club did, I didn't. Big clubs should be subsidising small clubs, because the strength of English football is the pyramid. In 30 years of the Premier League, only 7 clubs have ever won it. Two of those will likely never win it again. And who is better off from that?

Edit: I mistyped 5 instead of 6 and then remembered Blackburn for 7.

 

[roydo]

The club did, I didn't. Big clubs should be subsidising small clubs, because the strength of English football is the pyramid. In 30 years of the Premier League, only 6 clubs have ever won it. One of those will likely never win it again. And who is better off from that?

Its 7. But that doesnt detract from your point.

 

[brieverton]

We, in the form of Philip Carter, campaigned for a super league and special treatment for a decade - he was the original architect of the premier league more than anyone. Big clubs should not be subsidising small clubs - his words.
Hard to feel much outrage now the shoe is on the other foot.

To be fair to Sir Phil, the football league / football association was a complete anachronistic mess that had to be reformed, with nothing like the money in the game that there is now. So it wasn't the same bare-assed greed that we see driving today's super league aspirations - but it was basically the same argument.

I'm open to correction here, but afaik he didn't advocate the inception of the Premier League as a closed shop.

In my opinion they can have that closed shop now if they wish, but they cannot use the domestic league as some fall-back option into the mix.

The "Other 14" have more leverage than they think, particularly acting collectively.

I still expect the ESL to come to fruition at some point, as part of a bigger concept where there is some form of promotion/relegation, and probably an ESL 2 or ESL 3 even, and/or leagues based on loose geographical groupings of clubs.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Teams in Uefa competitions taken out of league cup but winner of league cup gets a Europa league spot the following year. ?

 

[OneTrueLegend]

I'm open to correction here, but afaik he didn't advocate the inception of the Premier League as a closed shop.

In my opinion they can have that closed shop now if they wish, but they cannot use the domestic league as some fall-back option into the mix.

The "Other 14" have more leverage than they think, particularly acting collectively.

I still expect the ESL to come to fruition at some point, as part of a bigger concept where there is some form of promotion/relegation, and probably an ESL 2 or ESL 3 even, and/or leagues based on loose geographical groupings of clubs.

Well the new format of the champions league allows for 2 high coefficient teams who qualify for the europa league or conference to get bumped up to the champions league. So Liverpool could finish 12th, with the league cup and go into the champions league, so it’s just a super league by another name.

 

[lesbattersby]

The clubs couldn't care less about to many games, thats a load of nonsense. The problem is that it's to many games in the wrong competitions. Them saying get rid of the league Cup to then adding more champions league games prove it. No such thing as player well fair and to many games, when the big ££££ is rolling in. They would have them playing everyday if they could.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Be made up if the League Cup became up for grabs every season without the usual doped up clubs like City, Chelsea and Liverpool holding a monopoly over every single competition.

Imagine the excitement of a semi final draw consisting of clubs like Everton, Leicester, West Ham & Aston Villa.

Proper cup ties and the chance for none glory hunting fans to see some silverware.

 

[FrenchDarrenBent]

Can't wait for that renewed Champions League....
Bayern vs Madrid
Barça vs Juventus
City vs Chelsea

Stay tuned for next year when we have
Madrid vs City
Barcelona vs Bayern
Chelsea vs Juventus

 

[TheBigIguana]

Personally I'd scrap the League Cup and try to save the FA Cup in as close to it's original format as possible including returning to neutral non Wembley semis with replays all the way up to the final. I'm not sure if that's popular but to me the FA Cup as a tradition is far more worthwhile to preserve.

 

[roydo]

Personally I'd scrap the League Cup and try to save the FA Cup in as close to it's original format as possible including returning to neutral non Wembley semis with replays all the way up to the final. I'm not sure if that's popular but to me the FA Cup as a tradition is far more worthwhile to preserve.

I get where you are coming from, but why should 86 or 85 clubs have a route to a cup removed cos 6 or 7 want to play more European games?

 

[TheBigIguana]

I get where you are coming from, but why should 86 or 85 clubs have a route to a cup removed cos 6 or 7 want to play more European games?

Too many clubs are unserious about the League Cup imo. And it isn't just teams in Europe or even the top flight.

 

[roydo]

Too many clubs are unserious about the League Cup imo. And it isn't just teams in Europe or even the top flight.

True. If I could be arsed, I would look up how many games a League 1 side play in a half decent season. Or a Championship one with a half decent cup run. It wont be anywhere near a top PL side I would guess, but still, less players etc.

That said, attendances at the early cup games, playing a big team aside, are pretty poor in the main. Edit. Live.

Its weird, but I have seen Bristol City win a Wembley final more times, (1) than I have seen Everton win one. (0). Ironically, Moyes played for Bristol City.

It just feels a bit off that a few clubs can decide what loads of others can play in.

 

[TheBigIguana]

True. If I could be arsed, I would look up how many games a League 1 side play in a half decent season. Or a Championship one with a half decent cup run. It wont be anywhere near a top PL side I would guess, but still, less players etc.

That said, attendances at the early cup games, playing a big team aside, are pretty poor in the main.

Its weird, but I have seen Bristol City win a Wembley final more times, (1) than I have seen Everton win one. (0). Ironically, Moyes played for Bristol City.

It just feels a bit off that a few clubs can decide what loads of others can play in.

It's completely wrong. But my suggestion wasn't really about them and more about the general indifference to the League Cup and also that the FA Cup has a similar attitude trickling in which really shouldn't be for an iconic competition. I think one cup brings back some of that importance. Then you can also start treating it right with replays and such and not like a hassle. That's where the 6 clubs need to be told to do one.

 

[MikeH72]

Too many clubs are unserious about the League Cup imo. And it isn't just teams in Europe or even the top flight.

Those teams are also not arsed about the FA Cup.