2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[GrandOldTeam]

I think blame can be awarded to more than one area. Players, manager, DoF, owner. They all deserve a share of it.

If placing blame, offer why or the solution.

So if blaming Benitez, say why.

If the answer is Gbamin, or Holgate - maybe have another think.

Thanks Mike, I had repressed that horrific memory and now its all can think about.


The sheer weight of the collapse, with multiple seasoned internationals forgetting how to do the most basic of work can't be put squarely on the manager.

We have mentally weak players who couldn't handle the atmosphere and poo'd the bed.

We can only second guess mate but the clubs captain and one of the most successful managers in world football has called out this teams mentality.

We can't keep letting them hide behind managers - for me the biggest problem with Benitez is he makes it very easy for these cowardly players to do that.

 

[LeeCarsley]

1. Who else plays? Does it change the outcome of that game?
2. Who comes on? Does it change the outcome of that game?
3. Played it for years ,including under Ancelotti.
4. So it was sound for 63 minutes but it caused us to concede 4 goals in 12 minutes.

Ok mate.

Rondon is just crap and that's down to recruitment, some of that is Benitez's fault but considering how Townsend and Gray have been I can perhaps give him the benefit of the doubt. The tactical change is interesting, as sometimes the football we play in the 4-2-3-1 is brilliant but as we've seen we can leak like a sieve if we lose concentration. I've seen these lot capitulate under multiple mangers now, so it's not all on him but I do think we may need to sacrifice a bit of this reckless abandon approach to attacking for some defensive solidity, even if it means we are less exciting to watch. Martinez and Silva never got the balance right, and Allardyce and Carlo went too far the other way. If Benitez can strike a good balance I don't see why we can't compete, I think we need a whole slew of new players however before I'm very excited to watch again, particularly at centreback.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Well it doesn't mater if Gbamin and Holgate "aren't for you" really in this example.

If you're Everton manager and you think Davies and Allan alone can stop Watford's changed shape then you're not fit for the job.

Now I remember why I don't normally bother my arse replying to you.

If gbamin isn’t an option even when we’re crying out for a body in the centre of the pitch then perhaps he just shouldn’t be on the bench . I can see the argument for holgate although if it hasn’t worked it’s fair to say the manager would have been crucified on here .

Maybe.

But then we also have two 'keepers on the bench.

I'll share the subs bench again.

Grim.

 

[sageyefc]

We’ve been outplayed in all but 1 game this season

 

[Nymzee]

Now I remember why I don't normally bother my arse replying to you.



Maybe.

But then we also have two 'keepers on the bench.

I'll share the subs bench again.

Grim.

View attachment 144541

You can keep showing us the bench all you want but there were 2 players there that were far more pragmatic and useful subs than freshening up a winger or two.

 

[Encoder]

If placing blame, offer why or the solution.

So if blaming Benitez, say why.

If the answer is Gbamin, or Holgate - maybe have another think.



We can only second guess mate but the clubs captain and one of the most successful managers in world football has called out this teams mentality.

We can't keep letting them hide behind managers - for me the biggest problem with Benitez is he makes it very easy for these cowardly players to do that.

We just have to hope that he lives up to his authoritarian reputation and flings them out. But with our injuries/squad at the moment theres not a lot who can fill those places and unfortunately we will have to persist until probably next year.

 

[Nymzee]

Let's see if his in-game management has improved tonight.

 

[Harryflashman]

Now I remember why I don't normally bother my arse replying to you.



Maybe.

But then we also have two 'keepers on the bench.

I'll share the subs bench again.

Grim.

View attachment 144541

No argument, grim is the word .

 

[Zatara]

Benitez Honours:

Champions League
Europa League
La Liga
FA Cup
Copa Italia

Nunos honours:

David Moyes was a has been I've read it on here everytime he's been linked with a return.

Now he's SAF lite with West Ham doing well...

Youve put two arguments across here, and both are at best misguided.

1: Youve praised Moyes who has won nothing, slated Nuno (who i didnt want) who has won nothing...

...but then praised Benitez. Its incoherent.


2: Youve focused solely on the current situation rather than any foundations which are being built by these managers.

Has Moyes built a stong foundation from Day 1 at West Ham = Yes.

Nuno + Benitez = No.

Gbamin is the answer then? Gbamin would have meant we'd 'see the game out' against Watford?

How many minutes has he played in the last 3 years?

You can't go throwing him on there.

Fans - myself included, slated Ancelotti for doing that against Crystal Palace in March; when the subs killed us;



As for the centre half in Holgate - the fella has been absolutely woeful for over a year. Putting him in midfield means we don't concede 4 goals in 12 minutes?

He replaced like-for-like for legs, and looking at that bench he had next to nothing on.

The team give up.

This is the team we have - a team the club captain admitted hides, a team who successive managers have questions their commitment - whether we like it or not the manager isn't that significant.

It's going to take a few years to rid the rot from this team.

You say that it will "take a few years", and i agree with you.

I think it 'should' take 3 summers with a lot of players being recycled in/out.

The real question is, do you want Benitez to be the main person responsible for rebuilding the squad?

For me, its a clear no because:

1: He looks well past his prime

2: His football is not an 'in your face' style that I like to see and traditionally associate with Everton.

3: His transfer record overall across teams isnt very impressive

4: Id rather we take the road that Spurs made and went down the Pochettino path. Someone on the way up who plays the type of football we want to watch (or something 'new') and can build a team in that image. They deviated and went for Mourinho and Nuno and the fans quickly turned.


What we should have is a DOF and a manager who are brought in to play the way we have traditionally played and have achieved 'success' with.

Thats not Benitez in any shape or form.

 

[LeeCarsley]

Has Moyes built a stong foundation from Day 1 at West Ham = Yes.

Nuno + Benitez = No.

one caveat is Benitez has had not much to work with. I want to wait until he brings in players and moves on the waste in January to really judge him. Moyes has been doing a very Moyes job at West Ham, hopefully it continues as I've got no ill will for Moyes or his side!

 

[Deleted member 48881]

.As for the centre half in Holgate - the fella has been absolutely woeful for over a year. Putting him in midfield means we don't concede 4 goals in 12 minutes?

Yup

 

[Zatara]

one caveat is Benitez has had not much to work with. I want to wait until he brings in players and moves on the waste in January to really judge him. Moyes has been doing a very Moyes job at West Ham, hopefully it continues as I've got no ill will for Moyes or his side!

Benitez has signed 5 players.

He's never shown he has any real ability in the transfer market over his career...hes made some great signings and a huge amount of poor ones.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

You say that it will "take a few years", and i agree with you.

I think it 'should' take 3 summers with a lot of players being recycled in/out.

The real question is, do you want Benitez to be the main person responsible for rebuilding the squad?

For me, its a clear no because:

1: He looks well past his prime

2: His football is not an 'in your face' style that I like to see and traditionally associate with Everton.

3: His transfer record overall across teams isnt very impressive

4: Id rather we take the road that Spurs made and went down the Pochettino path. Someone on the way up who plays the type of football we want to watch (or something 'new') and can build a team in that image. They deviated and went for Mourinho and Nuno and the fans quickly turned.


What we should have is a DOF and a manager who are brought in to play the way we have traditionally played and have achieved 'success' with.

Thats not Benitez in any shape or form.

Well, that long term rebuild should be the DOF anyway - not the manager.

My own view is our DOF/board should always be looking to replace Benitez. Treat him as we did Allardyce. Interim.

The contract they agreed with Ancelotti left us in the lurch.

The problem with Benitez is a lot of fans are desperate to pile on - things will turn ugly/nasty very quick and so, we could have an even smaller window than usual to replace him. He's never a long term answer and I think the board know that.

 

[Zezti]

If placing blame, offer why or the solution.

So if blaming Benitez, say why.

If the answer is Gbamin, or Holgate - maybe have another think.

I wasn't going to say anything about Gbamin or Holgate..?

I would say tactics, but that's a bit vague and all-encompassing. So, to specify one particular thing that the manager should get the blame for is set piece defending. Set pieces come straight off the training ground, very little is down to the players, and we've been crap at defending them.

5 conceded from set pieces in 9 games is pretty bad.
Compared to last season where we conceded 7 goals from set pieces, total.


None of us are high level football coaches so expecting us to give the solution is a bit much, don't you think?

 

[Zezti]

In my opinion, the hamstringing of the DOF and multiple cooks spoiling the broth are to blame. What is the manager supposed to do when Godfrey can't head the ball and Keane is cannoning the ball of Allans arse?

He gets them on the training pitch and drills them untill they stop doing these things?
Maybe he will do just that in time, and I'd love it if he did.