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"Review the manager in December..."

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Toffeelover said:
You said it Dave, " a large minority" ???????????

So lets be clear on this. Is it large because of a lot of fans but surely they are the majority not the minority. Could you clarify your statement please.
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You can have a minority that's large and still not be the majority! 40/60 (40 is a large minority); 20/80 (20 is a small minority).
 
davek said:
You can have a minority that's large and still not be the majority! 40/60 (40 is a large minority); 20/80 (20 is a small minority).
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Well Dave on your own figures 40% is very near half the fanbase. Leave it there because really we do not know for sure.
 
GrandOldTeam said:
Back in February, I created this thread: Martinez: The Reality

Context wise, it was created after a late own goal salvaged a draw with Leicester at Goodison. The BBC's match report linked labelled us as draw specialists - with merit, it was our 5th draw on the spin, our 7th draw in 13 home games, winning just 3. It all meant we had just 28 points from 26 games.

My view was although the season was grim, a complete write off - Martinez would change it around.

And so, I suggested that we all would be wise to give Martinez time;



It's December. What's changed?

Unfortunately, I don't have the opportunity I thought I'd have to sit here smugly and say "I told you so..." because, not much has changed. We're still draw specialists, we're still massively frustrating, we're still looking at our team on paper and thinking we're boss but then flattering to deceive.

This team is two years on, two years more mature from the team that finished 5th with out highest ever Premier League points total but it's a fair shout to say that we've not kicked on as we'd hoped, or expected - if anything we've regressed.

The consensus is that this is the best Everton squad for many a years - yet our last 57 games (38 last season+19 so far this season) has seen W18, D19, L20. That's a win rate of just 31%. Managers at lesser clubs have been sacked with a better record, rightly or wrongly, that's the game and so, talk of Martinez' position isn't to be so readily brushed off.

Our football is sexier to last season and notably we're passing with greater intent - Lukaku is benefiting from having some quality in the final third in Deulofeu and a confident Barkley - but, the actual output is comparative to last season. Domestically, we're marginally better vs same point last season - we're 5 points better off, and 1 place higher. It's disappointing. We all know it, only this week have we had senior players like Barry, and key players like Lukaku talking up a disappointing campaign. We've scored 6 more vs last season, and amazingly, conceded 3 less. We're also still in a domestic cup, an improvement on being dumped out the first time of asking last season. An improvement, but an overall performance that is underwhelming and ultimately, not good enough.

Through GrandOldTeam, I'm well positioned to gauge fan sentiment and sentiment towards Martinez, is at least in my opinion, at an all time low. My opinion is reaffirmed by some actual professional sentiment analysis but that's for the end of the season...

Despite the increasing focus on the manager, I'm convinced that clubs like Everton get nowhere chopping and changing managers and whether fans like it or not, Roberto Martinez will remain Everton's manager for many years to come - unless he wants off himself, or there's a change of board to one which genuinely aspires to the clubs motto with greater expectations.

The Everton manager, under Everton's existing regime benefits from, and enjoys having arguably the safest football job in England. Of course, there's benefit to that in stability, but the negative is football purgatory. We just exist as a football club...

Ask yourself this...
  • What would prompt Everton's existing board to sack an Everton manager?
That for me, is the crux of it.

What is the minimum expectation of the Everton manager?

Personally, I'm convinced that as long as our league status is assured, and season tickets keep coming in - an Everton manager who doesn't rock the boat will keep his job.

I'm still on the fence, though growing increasingly concerned that our misplaced loyalty to a manager with just one good domestic top flight season to his name could backfire and we lose an opportunity to achieve something with our best squad in a long time. I'd say if we finish below 8th at the end of the season, I'd say twist and look elsewhere.

Until then, I'm hopeful a couple of positive results could see us really kick on. Everton have failed to win consecutive league games for eight months. When that happens, and we find that consistency, we could really fly...

Keep the faith Blues. Two domestic cups are up for grabs and we're only 9 points from 4th... 5 from 5th.
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Assuming relegation would mean sacking, what if he delivers silverware in the meantime?
Would they sack a manager who just delivered the first trophy in 20 years?
 

Been away for New Years without internet and phone access, but think it's a fair question, particularly when I said I'd re-evaluate in December.
My verdict is currently we aren't doing too badly, but must do better. Good transfer business done by Martinez, but keeper is an area that needs to be resolved and quickly. As a team we've struggled for consistency, need to put a couple of wins on the trot together and that will push us back up the table.

Defensive solidity, particularly from free kicks has been a major concern this year.
We need to put some real work into this on the training ground. Now Bainsey has come out and said we have been, but perhaps that isn't enough, or perhaps we need a mentality change from the players when defending them.
Likewise we haven't dealt well with crosses into the box all season.
Some of that comes from Flappy Tim, but if we stop the crosses from coming in, we're less likely to be hurt from them.
Our defenders IMO give their attackers a step or two too much and allow them the space to pick their cross. When you are playing at the highest level, if you give players that space, they have the quality to hurt us.

Now this year we have struggled with injuries at the back, particularly to our experienced players, with Bainsey and Jags both experiencing lengthy stints out of the team. I reckon that's had a considerable effect, as while the young players that have come in have showed they have the ability, as young players lacking experience they are more prone to making mistakes.
When you have young players in a defensive unit, you rely on the experienced players to guide them through the game.
We have Tim Howard in goal, who's 36 and has many years experience as a number one. You'd expect him to step up.
Simply he hasn't, if anything his game has regressed and he is no longer good enough as a number one for a team aspiring to play in Europe.
His arrogance is grating to say the least now, the condescending clap to the fans appalling.
While I think the manager's stance on not criticising his players in public is admirable and canny, if that is truly what he thinks is true in private, and he hasn't been given a kick up the arse, the manager is blind to one of the biggest issues this team faces.
Get in a quality keeper and this team will turn from an almost team to a contender IMO and will drastically sure up at the back.

I've somewhat focused on the obvious negatives, but to be fair you have to acknowledge the positives as well.
Last season one of my biggest issues is that we weren't creating chances or attacking that well. Many people's criticism was that we were passing the ball too slow, and indeed that has been resolved by the manager and players, to the point where we are playing some of the best attacking football we have seen from a team in Everton blue for a long while.
A lot of that has come from the young players Roberto has kept faith in, Rom and Ross who both went through bad patches last year and have developed their all around game under his tutelage considerably, Rom improving his hold up play and aerial ability, with Ross adding some maturity to his game as he takes hold of the ball and dictates our play. Then finally Del who was an utter snip at 4 million, who came back because he had a manager who had faith in him and thought he could improve his game under.
Now if we can sort out our defensive woes, keep the attacking flair and start picking up points we are on to a winner.

When you consider both the positives and the negatives, I think the right action would be to wait until the end of the season and reassess the managers performance then.
We're not too far points-wise off the European places, playing some brilliant attacking football and in the semifinal of the league cup.
Plenty of football left to play.
If we finish outside of the top 7/8 without a cup win, for me that is two seasons of underperformance with a talented squad and he should leave.
A cup win would mitigate a midtable finish but without a trophy, top 7 has to be the bottom line.
Should two years of underperformance occur, as much as I like him as a man, we need to look elsewhere for someone who can get more out of the team.


Hopefully the New Year will bring resolution to the issues and finally a cup for Everton, it's been far too long.
COYB and I wish you all the best for this New Year to come.

Kiwi xx
 
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We had that run of 'easy' games. Some of the football was wonderful to watch, but we all expected a greater points haul.
In that respect, RM failed in December. Must do better.
 

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